747 in DAL Colors

[RedRum]

The fact remains that there are more favorable positions soon to be available to those former NWA pilots that could potentially slow down the progression and/or possibily displace premerger Delta pilots in part due to premerger Delta's superior fleet.

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Redrum,

No doubt you have made greater sacrifices than I. But then, I never applied to NWA and never wanted to fly their equipment out of their bases. If I had been in your shoes, I'd have quit and obtained new shoes.

Those new 767 sized loafers look a lot better than those 1963 Converse All Stars.

Thank God for you - having someone to argue with is very cathartic while my home and job are being shopped by Superman, Prince Valiant, Cerbus the Aardvark, and Spawn.

 

[captain caveman]

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

You're correct. My mistake. Superior fleet and bases, because I drive to my base. Bases are in large part what make qol. I am a relatively new hire that could drive to work and fly an er. Good qol? Most likely. I won't be flying a widebody in base for extra pay for quite a while.

But like you I think it's going well, overall.

 

[DBCOOPER]

If people like RedRum would go find another line of work, this would be a great job. All he does is badmouth others to make himself feel good. Poor guy.

To stick to the thread, the 747 looks great in DL colors, can't wait to see post 07 DL hires in the seats.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Cry me a friggin river ACL,

Don't even begin to tell me about the sacrafices you have made.

You have not worked harder and smarter than most people out there if you got hired at Delta in 2007. What the &^%$ gives you the right to the seniority of a NWA guy hired in 2000. TELL ME!
Really you know me?

You got what was was unexpected and have now forever gained from their loss.

WTF is a "sterio" type?

Get an education. Learn how to spell and then we can talk.

Were you from a PFT (Comair, other PFT BS operations) boy? I think it is shining through loud and clear. If so, be thankful your parents had the dough to pony up.
I did not pay for a job at ASA. I also paid my way all the way though school on my own dime!

Don't mean to be a hater, but "I calls it like I sees it!" I can smell it a mile away.

I think you sniffer is broken!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If people like RedRum would go find another line of work, this would be a great job. All he does is badmouth others to make himself feel good. Poor guy.

To stick to the thread, the 747 looks great in DL colors, can't wait to see post 07 DL hires in the seats.

Funny thing is that the pilots from DAL that are stapled may not be subject to the fences.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.
Same place I am now. I was given a direct ratio and that is all I expected

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!
Agree, but a superior airplane give you great QOL at work.

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.
Agreed, and I have no issue with getting bumped from my aircraft or my base. Use your seniority. I will use mine.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

I am curious were you at ASA until 99? You seem like someone I know from Dallas!

 

[Plug]

RedRum needs some anger management!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Don't we all. I understand his issues with the seniority list. I get that he was furloughed and now has to look at a few under 30 pilots for the rest of his life. Guess what I do to. It does not bother me. I made peace with the fact that this industry is full of injustices. Many of them completely out of our hands.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Get a seniority list crystal ball with percentages. I guarantee you every single Delta pilot other than those at the very bottom will have better percentages up the seniority list for the rest of their careers than if Delta remained separate. This is the problem with the Nic award. He made a fair list at that moment in time. Too bad that moment was at the worst possible time for the East pilots. If it were in arbitration today (less than two years later), I guarantee you it would not be the same. The Delta list is fair today, but not tomorrow.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will tell you this. We had a guy create an excel program. Plug in your pre and post merger end of year numbers and it gives you a graph.
It posted what I expected. Mine are almost exactly the same. They go up at the same time and level out at the same time.
As I stated, percentage wise, I stayed the same. From DCC to retirement. For some reason I will retire 10 numbers more senior with them merger than with out it! I am guessing that the DAL pre merger numbers are a little off

 

[Schwanker]

I'll lose 13% in relative seniority due to this merger over the next 12 years.

I'll retire at 8% vs. 1% at NWA.

Couple this with significantly higher number of "SUPER PREMIUM WIDEBODIES" per pilot at NWA which I'll no longer will be able to enjoy, I definitely was on the short end of this deal.

The attrition definitely wasn't accounted for in this miniscule pull-n-plug deal. Also, junior DAL guys now have a CPZ flowback option which previously didn't exist. Ironically, if the furloughs happen the pre 9/11 NWA hires will lose these CPZ seats to recent DAL newhires

Not bitching, just stating the facts. I'm over it and ready to move on.

Schwanker

 

[General Lee]

I'll lose 13% in relative seniority due to this merger over the next 12 years.

I'll retire at 8% vs. 1% at NWA.

Couple this with significantly higher number of "SUPER PREMIUM WIDEBODIES" per pilot at NWA which I'll no longer will be able to enjoy, I definitely was on the short end of this deal.

The attrition definitely wasn't accounted for in this miniscule pull-n-plug deal. Also, junior DAL guys now have a CPZ flowback option which previously didn't exist. Ironically, if the furloughs happen the pre 9/11 NWA hires will lose these CPZ seats to recent DAL newhires

Not bitching, just stating the facts. I'm over it and ready to move on.

Schwanker

Very doubtful any pre-9-11 hires at either airline will be furloughed, thanks to the part of our contract stating if someone prior to a Sept 1st, 2001 hire date is furloughed, every 76 seat RJ will lose 6 seats. What is great is that some of those pre Sept 1st, 01 hires are now junior to DL 07 newhires after that date, so they too are protected. Add to that any pilots junior to that date that do flow down to CPZ, the added expense of furloughing those guys, and retraining our guys, and then an eventual recall for both airlines. Very expensive. I guess DL could try to furlough people anyway, but they would have to take a look at the costs and loss of revenue from those larger RJs.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

Very doubtful any pre-9-11 hires at either airline will be furloughed, thanks to the part of our contract stating if someone prior to a Sept 1st, 2001 hire date is furloughed, every 76 seat RJ will lose 6 seats. What is great is that some of those pre Sept 1st, 01 hires are now junior to DL 07 newhires after that date, so they too are protected. Add to that any pilots junior to that date that do flow down to CPZ, the added expense of furloughing those guys, and retraining our guys, and then an eventual recall for both airlines. Very expensive. I guess DL could try to furlough people anyway, but they would have to take a look at the costs and loss of revenue from those larger RJs.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good points. Forgot all about the "lose 6 seats" clause. Some good language for us to make furloughs a very tough choice for DL management. And like you said, a furlough of 300 or so Delta pilots would mean retraining almost the entire CPZ airline. We'll see...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Good points. Forgot all about the "lose 6 seats" clause. Some good language for us to make furloughs a very tough choice for DL management. And like you said, a furlough of 300 or so Delta pilots would mean retraining almost the entire CPZ airline. We'll see...

Exactly. That is why it would need to be a long term furlough to make the retraining and furlough pay for itself. I have heard three years. Current projections on demand have it returning in two to two and a half. That puts it right on the line. Waiting for DOJ approval probably saved a lot of people from being furloughed. Time will tell.

 

[Schwanker]

Although CPZ was a loss in scope, it wasn't as bad as the DAL folks liked to advertise. Don't get me wrong, I was never in favor of the scope relief for CPZ to become a reality, but it could have been worse.

Schwanker

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Schwanker.. you are correct.

As bad as a give up as CPZ was, it actually makes furloughing more expensive and, therefore, less likely. Go figure, eh?