DAL AE's, Junior Bases

[Fly4hire]

Looking at the combined list, I see a real downward dip in a handful of MD88A's almost into the 19% range. Was this just an AE fluke, or is this available if you don't mid being a bottom feeder reserve? What base?

BTW, for those comparing numbers and how you came out, in my case with 11yrs to age 60 it's the difference of retiring as a DC9/MD/737A vs. 75/76A .

Displaced DC9A now. Hope to get back. May as well get to my final happy place as quickly as possible and try and make up the $$.

Also is there any discussion of transitioning to the NW style APA position award system from the AE? Sure makes staffing adjustments and training flow easier to manage......

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly4Hire:

I have little doubt you'll get back to the left seat very quickly and probably in the more highly powered version of your airplane with TV screens and poorly working VNAV.

The differences in bidding between the companies appears to be:
The NWA movement has been slower, so pilots bid into the max their seniority would hold over time.
The DAL movement has been more rapid and Delta pilots wait until they can hold schedules - and - due to the lower pay disparities a pilot could make much more as a senior FO than a junior Captain.

Also, my guess is that Delta pilots on average are not commuters, except for the former DFW pilots. Commuting on Delta has been difficult due to high load factors and RJ weight restrictions. It is my impression there are many more NWA commuters.

So to answer your question - a MD88A slot in a base like NY where pilots have to cover several airports is unpopular. The position was very close to being awarded to a DAL 2007 hire.

I'm not sure what the plan for the 88's is. After the DC9 it is the next least efficient jet in the airline (about where the new RJ's are at). There is a lot of talk about trying to collect the rest of the World's MD90's to grow the category by 100 to 130 jets, but it never seems to happen.

 

[Fly4hire]

Thanks ~~~^~~~. Besides the occasional hyperbole on both sides I have appreciated your well thought out posts. I hope you are right. We're "all in" for better or worse now......damn the torpedoes....

 

[jetjockey#1]

Looking at the combined list, I see a real downward dip in a handful of MD88A's almost into the 19% range. Was this just an AE fluke, or is this available if you don't mid being a bottom feeder reserve? What base?

BTW, for those comparing numbers and how you came out, in my case with 11yrs to age 60 it's the difference of retiring as a DC9/MD/737A vs. 75/76A .

Displaced DC9A now. Hope to get back. May as well get to my final happy place as quickly as possible and try and make up the $$.

Also is there any discussion of transitioning to the NW style APA position award system from the AE? Sure makes staffing adjustments and training flow easier to manage......

Oh wait, you are not supposed to be thinking that way. You all got so screw with this merger, remember? we took all the retirements away from you all, remember??/

B.S., the fact of the matter is, you can all hold higher paying equipment than you did before this merger at the expense of the DAL pilots. It is total B.S. a DC9 displaced captain can hold NOW captain on a DAL A/C , totally unacceptable, so much for a fair merger. I know everybody wants to let go and play nice, but when you hear a NWA DC9 displaced capt drooling over a DAL 757 CPt slot, it brings it all back.

I think it's so funny the NWA pilots don't feel threaten by DAL jumping all over their bases and equipment. Yeah, NWA union did a heck of a job for their guys. What about us? Oh yeah, we got f#$^%K. One heck of a legacy you are leaving behind Lee.

 

[clippyrip]

Oh wait, you are not supposed to be thinking that way. You all got so screw with this merger, remember? we took all the retirements away from you all, remember??/

B.S., the fact of the matter is, you can all hold higher paying equipment than you did before this merger at the expense of the DAL pilots. It is total B.S. a DC9 displaced captain can hold NOW captain on a DAL A/C , totally unacceptable, so much for a fair merger. I know everybody wants to let go and play nice, but when you hear a NWA DC9 displaced capt drooling over a DAL 757 CPt slot, it brings it all back.

I think it's so funny the NWA pilots don't feel threaten by DAL jumping all over their bases and equipment. Yeah, NWA union did a heck of a job for their guys. What about us? Oh yeah, we got f#$^%K. One heck of a legacy you are leaving behind Lee.

Are you kidding? Listening to a Delta pilot complain about this list is laughable. You guys leap frogged tons of NWA pilots older and more experienced and you are still are not happy? Go cry at home and not on a public forum, my fiddle for you is so small I can't find it to play.

 

[Fly4hire]

I know everybody wants to let go and play nice, but when you hear a NWA DC9 displaced capt drooling over a DAL 757 CPt slot, it brings it all back.

WTFAYTA? I cannot hold anything other than my displaced position (757B) right now. After SOC I might be able to bid bottom feeder MD88A somewhere, or displace into it if recalled on the DC9 and displaced again

I will never see 757A now unless I stay to 65, and probably not even then.

As to bidding anywhere (both sides) there still have to be vacancies, and there is no bump & flush other than displacements that both sides had before.

I can tell you are one of those tools who will be 10yrs junior to me in the right seat bitching that you should have been Captain. Grow up.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Are you kidding? Listening to a Delta pilot complain about this list is laughable. You guys leap frogged tons of NWA pilots older and more experienced and you are still are not happy? Go cry at home and not on a public forum, my fiddle for you is so small I can't find it to play.

You should be ashamed. Your pilot group is going to be displacing tons of DAL pilots out of our equipment and making us take huge pay cuts as a result, and you still complain. You all got a much bigger pay raise, better work rules, access to higher paying equipment, and on top of it all you get to keep your pension, with DAL funding it, and still not enough. That's what we can expect from you all. I can see it already:

NWA: Yeah I was a DC9 at NWA and damn you DAL pilots jumped in front of me.
DAL: Excuse me sir, you became a B76 captain 6 months after SOC,
NWA: so, what's your point kid?

 

[jetjockey#1]

WTFAYTA? I cannot hold anything other than my displaced position (757B) right now. After SOC I might be able to bid bottom feeder MD88A somewhere, or displace into it if recalled on the DC9 and displaced again

I will never see 757A now unless I stay to 65, and probably not even then.

As to bidding anywhere (both sides) there still have to be vacancies, and there is no bump & flush other than displacements that both sides had before.

I can tell you are one of those tools who will be 10yrs junior to me in the right seat bitching that you should have been Captain. Grow up.

Why do you feel entitled to hold MD88A. If at NWA you could only hope to end up as a DC9 cpt, why do you feel entitled to hold B76cpt as you mentioned on your original post. By the way, MD88A went to Dec00, so I am not sure how much more junior you could be than that.

As to bidding anywhere (both sides) there still have to be vacancies, and there is no bump & flush other than displacements that both sides had before.

We'll see what happens when they are start moving A/C around and it becomes an open bid. I am not sure the NWA narrow body pilots will want to stay away from the "little" widebodies.

I can tell you are one of those tools who will be 10yrs junior to me in the right seat bitching that you should have been Captain.

No I don't think I should be a captain, I just think I should be able to keep my equipment, and if displaced, I should be bumped by a DAL pilot, not a NWA pilot, and viceversa. I know totally unfair.

 

[General Lee]

Jetjockey#1,

I can see your frustration, but tone it down a bit. It is fun to debate, but you are acting like a major sore loser, and you can't do anything about it. It is what it is. Some guys did well, and some guys on both sides did not. Regardless, there will be retirements over the next 5 years, and then another bunch about 5 years after that. Try to get on something acceptable to you, and ride it out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[hockeypilot44]

Jetjockey#1,

I can see your frustration, but tone it down a bit. It is fun to debate, but you are acting like a major sore loser, and you can't do anything about it. It is what it is. Some guys did well, and some guys on both sides did not. Regardless, there will be retirements over the next 5 years, and then another bunch about 5 years after that. Try to get on something acceptable to you, and ride it out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

There will be very few retirements in the next five years. The only guys turning 65 are on the NWA side (ropes that went back to window seat), and there are only a handful. If pilots were going to retire, they would have done it before the merger. For some reason, pilots have a hard time letting go of this job.

 

[General Lee]

There will be very few retirements in the next five years. The only guys turning 65 are on the NWA side (ropes that went back to window seat), and there are only a handful. If pilots were going to retire, they would have done it before the merger. For some reason, pilots have a hard time letting go of this job.

Well, you get what I mean. There will EVENTUALLY be a pretty good chunk of retirements. Look at the birtdates on one of our first proposals, and you will see what I mean. People born in the late 40s or early 50s. Gas is lower and that will help with profits, and I think we are currently hedging for 2010. We all have the Compass flowdown if anyone needs that now. Not everything is so bad. Not everyone was happy with the SLI, which means it was about right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Why do you feel entitled to hold MD88A....If at NWA you could only hope to end up as a DC9 cpt, why do you feel entitled to hold B76cpt as you mentioned on your <b> No I don't think I should be a captain, I just think I should be able to keep my equipment, and if displaced, I should be bumped by a DAL pilot, not a NWA pilot, and viceversa. I know totally unfair.

Well because junior MD88A is several hundred numbers junior to me on the combined list even though I lost 22 months of seniority - and I can still hold it.

You need to re-read my original post - I could of easily held 757A at the pre-merger NWA prior to 60, and will likely not hold it now even if I stay to 65

As to fair - blame the arbitrators, it is what it is now.

I think this meets the criteria of fair -we are all PO'd

 

[Fly4hire]

There will be very few retirements in the next five years. The only guys turning 65 are on the NWA side (ropes that went back to window seat), and there are only a handful. If pilots were going to retire, they would have done it before the merger. For some reason, pilots have a hard time letting go of this job.

I think you are wrong and will see many more pilots retire at 60. There is a substantial pension penalty to leave before 60, but not much financial advantage to stay past. Our frozen pension will help move our older pilots out the door well prior to 65.

 

[MCDU]

How many vol. Furloughed NWA and Delta pilots are still working for other airlines? I think Delta has 10 years to come back and NWA pilots were able to bypass.

M

 

[Who Dey]

I usually don't post much but here it goes. I am on the bottom of the seniority list and was wondering how jr CVG is. It is my home so I would like to stop commuting to DTW. Yes bitter Dal guy(jetjockey) I will be getting a better lifestyle if I get CVG but in 10 years I was supposed to be halfway up the list now I will only be 1/4 of the way up. My % on the list 10 years will be hurt. I am not complaining I am dealing with it. If I can get CVG after SOC I would like it. I don't think that is screwing over any Delta pilots. So back to my point is there a chance to get CVG? I am down in the real low 12000s

 

[filejw]

I think you are wrong and will see many more pilots retire at 60. There is a substantial pension penalty to leave before 60, but not much financial advantage to stay past. Our frozen pension will help move our older pilots out the door.

Not as much as you think. Most senior NWA guys are Green Book and their DP is based on narrow body pay. Take my case, when I get to 60 in 2012 the pay on my eq will be 231$ with the international override. With minimal effort i can see making 220/240 per year on what is basically a part time job of 9 to 11 days a month . My DP retirement will be about 120$ per year. The penalty you speak of is minuscule and considering I wouldn't have had any employee contribution to my retirement for the last 6 years like say some friends in other profession I am thinking of staying...

 

[Noserider76]

Your pilot group is going to be displacing tons of DAL pilots out of our equipment and making us take huge pay cuts as a result, and you still complain. You all got a much bigger pay raise, better work rules, access to higher paying equipment, and on top of it all you get to keep your pension, with DAL funding it, and still not enough.

Hey Jet,

I sympathize with what you're saying but I don't believe it was the SLI or NW pilots that are to blame. I think it probably turned out as fairly as it could. There could have been some fences on bases and equipment but would that have been effective with the moves the company has planned?

The problem is the much different demographics, bases, and equipment at the two companies. The day this merger was announced the writing was on the wall that the NW guys would move to bigger equipment closer to home ASAP. I don't blame them. Things would have been different base and equipment-wise with a UA merger but would it have been painful in a different way? Probably.

For me it looks like an indefinite delay on upgrading on the 75 at this particular warm weather base. We now have to share the great deal we've had and just hope for a better long-term career. Either way it's out of our control and in our best interests to see the group come together. Hope it works out OK for you. Cheers.

 

[nonstop]

I usually don't post much but here it goes. I am on the bottom of the seniority list and was wondering how jr CVG is. It is my home so I would like to stop commuting to DTW. Yes bitter Dal guy(jetjockey) I will be getting a better lifestyle if I get CVG but in 10 years I was supposed to be halfway up the list now I will only be 1/4 of the way up. My % on the list 10 years will be hurt. I am not complaining I am dealing with it. If I can get CVG after SOC I would like it. I don't think that is screwing over any Delta pilots. So back to my point is there a chance to get CVG? I am down in the real low 12000s

Check out the NWA ALPA page, goto the merger link and look at the DAL and NWA proposed seniority lists. Those lists include base as well as position (well at least 1 of them did, not sure which I looked at DAL or NWA). You can cross reference the arbitrated list and see where guys junior to you fall. From what I saw there were junior guys in every base so I imagine you'll be able to hold it.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

CVG is senior as it has shrunk a bit. I am a 24% from the bottom (both lists) and can barely hold 757/767

 

[Full of LUV]

Why don't you move?

I usually don't post much but here it goes. I am on the bottom of the seniority list and was wondering how jr CVG is. It is my home so I would like to stop commuting to DTW. Yes bitter Dal guy(jetjockey) I will be getting a better lifestyle if I get CVG but in 10 years I was supposed to be halfway up the list now I will only be 1/4 of the way up. My % on the list 10 years will be hurt. I am not complaining I am dealing with it. If I can get CVG after SOC I would like it. I don't think that is screwing over any Delta pilots. So back to my point is there a chance to get CVG? I am down in the real low 12000s

Why don't you just move to DTW, I've heard you can get a great deal on a house there right now!