New DAL senority List

[General Lee]

I like that DAL is converting the 787 orders to 777 300LRs

They haven't exactly said they were doing that yet. The WSJ said they were thinking about it. They may still keep the 787 orders, but push them. As Sedona said, we have 50 777 N number registrations via the FAA already, and we don't know what their plans are eventually. If they said they would keep the 787s, and the orders didn't come for a couple years due to Boeing delays, then all new 777s up to that point would be ours.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[whymeworry?]

Hey General,

I've got a buddy who was hired summer of '01. I believe he was May '02 but it could have been June. How did he fare in all this?

 

[whymeworry?]

Hey General,

I've got a buddy who was hired at DAL summer of '01. I believe he was May '01 but it could have been June. How did he fare in all this?

 

[Fly4hire]

I agree with you. I think this was a clear win for Northwest pilots and a severe blow to most delta pilots with no fences on bases or aircrafts.

More than offset by very little credit for attrition. So we get to bid onto what and where we want and then stagnate. What did they say about equally unhappy being fair? Of course it is very different depending on where you are now and how long until age 60. The more years you have to go, the uglier it gets for the NWA side. Those with less than 10 to go do far better than those with 20 ahead.

 

[Fly4hire]

Therein lies the rub...who do they belong to now. The language handed down says 787's converted to 777's belong to NWA pilots for five years. This will be the biggest battle yet to settle in my opinion.

I think the question IS settled. This is THE award.

 

[Sedona16]

I think the question IS settled. This is THE award.

I realize this IS the award but the award now has questions that need clarification and answers. Not to worry though because the arbitrators named themselves the persons who will resolve said questions going forward therefore insuring their own job protection in the future. Who gets to fly the 777's delivered (airplanes already in the works and with registered N numbers) where Anderson is using unflyable 787's to purchase these 777's will most certainly create a strong debate yet to be resolved.

 

[jetjockey#1]

All in all.... I think it came out quite fairly.

I was 90.9%...now I'm 90.4% back on the list. They used our methodology, gave NWA a pretty hefty weighting for their retirements, and grouped the 9 differently to not have them all stapled.

All in all... kudos to the mediators for really attempting to do a great job. We'll see how it all plays out!

I'm truly looking forward to sharing the cockpit with my "former" NW brethren.

Are you kidding? I guess you must not fly international. If you did, you would realize that at your percentage you could hold a line and have a good life, before. Now, you are going to be stagnant for the next five years with a bunch on NWA guys wanting to fly little 767s all over Europe and South America. We junior guys got *********************D, by our own union first, 2nd class furlough protection for post 9/11 new hires, and now this. Hopefully NWA won't bid our planes an bases all at once.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Not drunk at all Peenuckle. Just pissed at the ruling and the "entitlement" you think you deserve!!! I would gladly trade my $10 an hr. pay raise for loosing 1,000 numbers of seniority anyday--wish we had never merged. Hope you enjoyed that ILS lesson down to minimums in GRR when I was your Capt. Hope you can teach me as much when I am your F/O.

Well sir, even though you are 1000 numbers junior, you can probably hold captain on a 73, more money, with the same schedule, or maybe even 76ER, 97 hire. I wonder what's the most junior captain hire at NWA flying the 330. NWA got the lion share of the contract benefits, and now you all got a windfall at the DAL pilot's expense. Let's just hope all your retirements come through and we all don't start jumping on each other's planes and bases. Don't worry your DC9s, Buses, and 75s are safe. Delta pilots are starting to look a lot like the TWA guys right about now.

 

[jetjockey#1]

More than offset by very little credit for attrition. So we get to bid onto what and where we want and then stagnate. What did they say about equally unhappy being fair? Of course it is very different depending on where you are now and how long until age 60. The more years you have to go, the uglier it gets for the NWA side. Those with less than 10 to go do far better than those with 20 ahead.

As long as your pilots stay on their own bases they will thrive. I can't see that many DAL pilots bidding ANC, MSP, MEM, and oh yeah the ever thriving DTW. SEA is so senior it doesn't even apply. So, stay on your own base, on NWA equipment and you will have the same career movement as you would've before this nightmare ruined career expectations for a lot of us.

 

[Sinca3]

I'm not disagreeing that the top third of the DAL list is taking the biggest hit. Let's not forget that the pull out plug in way of giving them credit (IF I understand it correctly) has already ocured, so any movement is list wide. Not great but a little to help ofset the immediate backward movement.

 

[filejw]

I realize this IS the award but the award now has questions that need clarification and answers. Not to worry though because the arbitrators named themselves the persons who will resolve said questions going forward therefore insuring their own job protection in the future. Who gets to fly the W's delivered (airplanes already in the works and with registered N numbers) where Anderson is using unplayable W's to purchase these W's will most certainly create a strong debate yet to be resolved.

If you read it the arbitrators appointed themselfs to answer all those future questions.

 

[airport757]

There is no doubt that the Delta pilots got majorly hosed on this one. It isn't even close. NWA pilots got a pay raise, get to get out of flying 40 year old dc-9s, get to keep only (Northwest pilots only) flying their 744 and 787s, get to fly 777s because Delta never likes new airplanes anyway (yes they were always going to go cancel the 787 orders) and arbitration panel obviously will say that the 777 are replacements, get to have way better bases, get to keep their pensions, did not loose very much system wide seniority (inother words have higher relative seniority), get to fly internationally because we have triple the amount of international planes that aren't fenced...I could go on and on...you guys even get furlough protections with the 757. But at least we can all move on now. Just had to get a little of that out there.

 

[MJ42]

As long as your pilots stay on their own bases they will thrive. I can't see that many DAL pilots bidding ANC, MSP, MEM, and oh yeah the ever thriving DTW. SEA is so senior it doesn't even apply. So, stay on your own base, on NWA equipment and you will have the same career movement as you would've before this nightmare ruined career expectations for a lot of us.

I'm gonna bid 76er just to piss you off!:laugh: Kidding, but I'm surprised most accept the list. I think we dodged a bullet and should be happy it's not the US Airways debacle!

 

[p3flteng]

About what I had expected, .....less than I had hoped for but liveable enough to move on.

I look forward to putting this whole thing behind and I personally refuse to be a miserable SOB, so if any of you Miserable SOB's out there want to rant and rave about it in the cockhouse, save it for the rearview mirror on your drive home.

Life is too short to be pissed off at the world all the time, besides beers cold.

 

[ualdriver]

Can anyone post the final ruling so those interested can read it?

 

[loser]

I agree with JetJockey. As another junior ER pilot I fear losing my seat in a shifting of flying. I can see myself on a narrow body out of DTW this time next year..... All in all the award seems somewhat fair but fences to protect DAL's international flying would have been nice.

 

[navigator]

new day

As a 40yr old junior 76ER Delta dude, I also hoped for a better position (I had about 500 below prior and now less than 800). The trigger has been pulled though, and there’s no use in whining and discord…it will not make anyone’s life better by it (though I realize pilots have an amazing affinity for this…well, lets just say we desire things better and easier). I wish the best for the new Delta, for its success is what will move us upwards more than anything.

 

[regionalcap]

disregard....

 

[DTW320]

There is no doubt that the Delta pilots got majorly hosed on this one. It isn't even close. NWA pilots got a pay raise, get to get out of flying 40 year old dc-9s, get to keep only (Northwest pilots only) flying their 744 and 787s, get to fly 777s because Delta never likes new airplanes anyway (yes they were always going to go cancel the 787 orders) and arbitration panel obviously will say that the 777 are replacements, get to have way better bases, get to keep their pensions, did not loose very much system wide seniority (inother words have higher relative seniority), get to fly internationally because we have triple the amount of international planes that aren't fenced...I could go on and on...you guys even get furlough protections with the 757. But at least we can all move on now. Just had to get a little of that out there.

Both sides are supposed to pissed, remember? Despite your list of complaints, it sure seems to have gone more DAL's way than NWA's. I personally gained 2% relative seniority over standalone NWA but find myself over 1500 numbers junior to some DAL guys hired after me. 1500.....that's approx 12% of the list. Not sure how those DAL guys got "majorly hosed".

What has bigger significance? Not sure. I guess it depends on what happens in the future. I'm all ears for further "education" on how I "scored big-time" or "got hosed"

 

[saabservant]

I think I'd rather be screwed on this new list, than furloughed on another, like now....
bah, humbug!