USAPA Members Ready to move forward....

[Contract]

Apparently USAPA (the union which claims to represent US Airway Pilots) has its back against the ropes not only with the court system but also with its own membership. The lawsuits against USAPA continue to mount as well as the decisions by judges throughout the country that dont see eye to eye with USAPA leadership. USAPA is not only fighting the west pilots, but it also has law suits pending from pilots within its own ranks that never recieved "Date of Hire" as the protocol for their seniority with other USAIRWAY pilots. As a result east coast USAirway pilots are reportedly beginning to meet with their counterparts from the west coast in an effort to remove the current leadership at USAPA.

Current members cite their leadership's misguided and stuborn behaviour related to seniority issues dating back to January 07 when they refused to negotiate seniortiy after the arbitrator requested them to do so. They also realize that the assesment fees could begin to mount if a United States Federal Judge in the District of Arizona rules that USAPA is liable for making furloughed pilots in the west whole after being furloughed out of seniority order.

As a result many members are now ready to move forward in an effort to remove the USAPA Leadership and join the west pilots in negotiating better work rules and pay that will unite the two groups as they move forward.

 

[TWA Dude]

Good luck with your effort but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[FR8mastr]

I believe it, there has always been a group of pilots at U that were/are willing to throw any one under the bus for a nickel raise.

 

[Bringupthebird]

As opposed to remaining pinned beneath the bus while shouting, "Bus? I don't see any bus! And if we are under the bus, why doesn't the west come down here with us?"

 

[Fast43]

Apparently USAPA (the union which claims to represent US Airway Pilots) has its back against the ropes not only with the court system but also with its own membership. The lawsuits against USAPA continue to mount as well as the decisions by judges throughout the country that dont see eye to eye with USAPA leadership. USAPA is not only fighting the west pilots, but it also has law suits pending from pilots within its own ranks that never recieved "Date of Hire" as the protocol for their seniority with other USAIRWAY pilots. As a result east coast USAirway pilots are reportedly beginning to meet with their counterparts from the west coast in an effort to remove the current leadership at USAPA.

Current members cite their leadership's misguided and stuborn behaviour related to seniority issues dating back to January 07 when they refused to negotiate seniortiy after the arbitrator requested them to do so. They also realize that the assesment fees could begin to mount if a United States Federal Judge in the District of Arizona rules that USAPA is liable for making furloughed pilots in the west whole after being furloughed out of seniority order.

As a result many members are now ready to move forward in an effort to remove the USAPA Leadership and join the west pilots in negotiating better work rules and pay that will unite the two groups as they move forward.

Well its not April 1st. So I'll ask where you got your info.

Fast

 

[LearLove]

Well its not April 1st. So I'll ask where you got your info.

Fast

I'll second that.

I will also note FR8's post above: I agree some of the "silver spoons" (DOH around 1986ish and earlier) around here need a sharp smack upside their heads. Not every single one falling into that group but enough that the "attitude" is noticeable.

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

Too little way too late.

If I were advising the West guys, I would recommend not letting up until you successfully receive a court order for damages to be paid to your group by the East.

I do not believe you are far from this at this time.

 

[Deadalus]

As opposed to remaining pinned beneath the bus while shouting, "Bus? I don't see any bus! And if we are under the bus, why doesn't the west come down here with us?"

If you ask USAPA they'd probably tell you there is no bus, even as the pressure(from the bus) pops their little heads.

 

[Green]

I believe it, there has always been a group of pilots at U that were/are willing to throw any one under the bus for a nickel raise.

Is it better to let a group of bitter fo's subvert the process and potentially sink the airline in an attempt to weasel their way out of an arbitrated agreement??? I love the righteous indignation coming from the east. As if you are fighting a noble battle. Don't forget to pay those dues, there's a BIG bill headed USAPA's way...

 

[Turtle21]

Apparently ALPA (the union which claims to represent 60,000 Pilots) has its back against the ropes not only with the court system but also with its own membership. The lawsuits against ALPA continue to mount as well as the decisions by judges throughout the country that don’t see eye to eye with ALPA leadership. ALPA is not only fighting the disgruntled pilots, but it also has law suits pending from pilots within its own ranks that never received "jack Sh!t" since they don’t feed on the insider’s trough. As a result most ALPA pilots at every single ALPA carrier are reportedly beginning to meet with their counterparts from other carriers in an effort to remove the current leadership at ALPA.

Current members cite their leadership's misguided and stubborn behavior related to excessive national leadership pay, housing allowances, and conferences at luxurious resorts--issues dating back to days long ago. Members also realize that the assessment fees will begin to mount as ALPA discovers there is no need for members to vote on assessments to increase FPL, salaries, or caviar and champagne for "First Friday" office parties.

As a result many members are pledging to commit to a new years resolution to move forward in an effort to remove the ALPA Leadership. This year is going to be different!

Others are spending their layovers wisely. They are seeking an online clerical degree from a nationally recognized office management school. They hope to soon be a secretary for ALPA national in order to finally get their long awaited pay raise.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Someone thinks that ALPA wasn't giving one of their most important pilot groups it's "props". Last I heard USAirways used to have reps at the BOD level and could have pushed for more thriftiness within ALPA.

Funny, alot of those same people are USAPA mules now.

So the F/O's at US Airways got so mad at the secretary salaries and expense accounts that they decided to ditch ALPA and sacrifice their own pay for at least 5 more years? Sounds like something that brain trust would do. Why wouldn't I want to join them?

 

[FR8mastr]

Just maybe every once in a while, when all the stars align, Pilots will actually do what they consider the right thing, rather than try and line their pockets at some other pilots expense.

I know that is something completely foreign to most Union pilots, but it is well know amongst most other Union workers.

 

[dispatchguy]

If you ask USAPA they'd probably tell you there is no bus, even as the pressure(from the bus) pops their little heads.

Reminds me of that episode of The Sopranos!

*sqqqquuuuuuiiiiissssshhhhhh*

 

[Turtle21]

Just maybe every once in a while, when all the stars align, Pilots will actually do what they consider the right thing, rather than try and line their pockets at some other pilots expense.

I know that is something completely foreign to most Union pilots, but it is well know amongst most other Union workers.

Other union workers would laugh at you if you told them you had a new "it depends" definition for seniority. Without seniority, the profession is no better than picking which soup line is best.

We might as well go and get a real job with promotions based on merit.

 

[FR8mastr]

judging how most other unions define seniority (I would say all, but there is always the exception that makes the rule), you might want to look into who has the new definition.

I agree with your statement "without seniority"

 

[Green]

Just maybe every once in a while, when all the stars align, Pilots will actually do what they consider the right thing, rather than try and line their pockets at some other pilots expense.
.

That's exactly what the west is doing. We have played by the rules every step of the way. It is the East Fo's such as yourself who have hijacked the process out of pure greed. You are biassed I am biassed hence the neutral arbitrator (picked by the east) and the pilot neutrals. But you didn't like his decision and intend to burn the place down if you don't get your way...Very honorable thing to do...I wonder how many families will be forced into bankruptcy through the actions of the Angry FO club...

 

[Turtle21]

That's exactly what the west is doing. We have played by the rules every step of the way. It is the East Fo's such as yourself who have hijacked the process out of pure greed. You are biassed I am biassed hence the neutral arbitrator (picked by the east) and the pilot neutrals. But you didn't like his decision and intend to burn the place down if you don't get your way...Very honorable thing to do...I wonder how many families will be forced into bankruptcy through the actions of the Angry FO club...

Oh the drama. The drama is unbearable...

This isn't a game. This is a profession.

A profession.. until the last pilot sells out.

 

[reepicheep]

A profession.. until the last pilot sells out.

As a usair pilot you'd know , wouldn't you?

 

[Turtle21]

As a usair pilot you'd know , wouldn't you?

We are scab free... so we have to read about it in history books.:laugh:

 

[FR8mastr]

That's exactly what the west is doing. We have played by the rules every step of the way. It is the East Fo's such as yourself who have hijacked the process out of pure greed. You are biassed I am biassed hence the neutral arbitrator (picked by the east) and the pilot neutrals. But you didn't like his decision and intend to burn the place down if you don't get your way...Very honorable thing to do...I wonder how many families will be forced into bankruptcy through the actions of the Angry FO club...

Greed? That is a stretch, the East has not gotten nor will get any pay raises for a long time. The East also does not want any part of West flying. The West can name their own protections and limits. The only thing you cant have is the East jobs. It really is that simple. To sum it up the East wants nothing from the West.. The West wants the East Seats. Greedy indeed.

After what your esteemed, integrity filled MEC, tried to do to the ex CEL pilots, you have some nerve saying anything about honor. For those that don't know, the West MEC petitioned the court to have the CEL pilots removed, that's right removed, not just placed at the bottom of the combined list. Among the reasons given include that the CEL only flew DHC-8's and therefore might not posess the ability to fly a larger ML aircraft.

If that is what you think is Honor and Integity you are a shoe in for ALPA national. I suggest if the opportunity ever arises, you go for it.

 

[MCDU]

Great post. That about sums it up.

The biggest loud mouths on here are seem to be Ex East pilots who chose not to take the recall and are trying to leap frog fellow classmates out East by hundreds of numbers.

M

 

[weasel_lips]

Great post. That about sums it up.

The biggest loud mouths on here are seem to be Ex East pilots who chose not to take the recall and are trying to leap frog fellow classmates out East by hundreds of numbers.

M

So true!

 

[becket]

Great post. That about sums it up.

The biggest loud mouths on here are seem to be Ex East pilots who chose not to take the recall and are trying to leap frog fellow classmates out East by hundreds of numbers.

M

You assume too much.

 

[Green]

Greed? That is a stretch, the East has not gotten nor will get any pay raises for a long time. The East also does not want any part of West flying. The West can name their own protections and limits. The only thing you cant have is the East jobs. It really is that simple. To sum it up the East wants nothing from the West.. The West wants the East Seats. Greedy indeed.

After what your esteemed, integrity filled MEC, tried to do to the ex CEL pilots, you have some nerve saying anything about honor. For those that don't know, the West MEC petitioned the court to have the CEL pilots removed, that's right removed, not just placed at the bottom of the combined list. Among the reasons given include that the CEL only flew DHC-8's and therefore might not posess the ability to fly a larger ML aircraft.

If that is what you think is Honor and Integity you are a shoe in for ALPA national. I suggest if the opportunity ever arises, you go for it.

wow fr8 you should apply for the USAPA position of Minister of Propoganda. You are quite talented in that field. They wanted the CEL pilots removed strictly for negotiating reasons. The one you stated is ridiculous. Expecting the award to be a slotting one the west obviously did not want the east to throw an extra hundred guys or so to the bottom of their list. I know you will claim that they were mainline pilots ect but they simply were not. One question proves that fact. I doubt you will even address this but prior to the merger were the CEL pilots allowed to bid A-320 FO without going through an interview?????

I still maintain this whole debacle is due to greedy east fo's such as yourself! I'm not talking about payraises here. I'm talking about the fact that you are willing to burn the whole thing down in order to weasel your way out of a binding seniority award. There is a no bump no flush provision so nobody can bump you out of your seat. But you want nearly all future vacancies for the east. Nicolau did not feel you were entitled to all of them, neither did the pilot neutrals.

I would argue that after the merger there is no east or west flying. As everybody who has half a brain knows the east wouldn't even still be around. All the resources from AWA were redirected towards the new US Airways. The new internationl destinations would not have happened absent the merger. It is not 'your flying.'

 

[MCDU]

AWA needed this merger. AWA would be history without it. USair would have been just fine without Mesa Grande.

M

 

[reepicheep]

You're so right - AWA's costs were way too low prior to the merger - on par with Southwest. Now that "Cool Northern Efficiency" has set in, They're right where they belong, twice as high as Southwest. And now we can set about dismantling a third airline and it's route structure that took decades to build, ala PSA and Piedmont.

(Now's the part where MCDU responds by telling us all about usair and their industry-leading yields that landed them in BK twice and lost them $5 billion in a decade-and-a-half)

 

[xanderman]

AWA needed this merger. AWA would be history without it. USair would have been just fine without Mesa Grande.

M

Dude! ...You continue to bogart that crack pipe like that and you're sure to blister your lips!

 

[FR8mastr]

wow fr8 you should apply for the USAPA position of Minister of Propoganda. You are quite talented in that field. They wanted the CEL pilots removed strictly for negotiating reasons.

So because they tried to ruin the careers of a couple hundred people for negotiating reasons it's ok then?

The one you stated is ridiculous.

It's right out of the West brief to the arbitraitor

I know you will claim that they were mainline pilots ect but they simply were not. One question proves that fact. I doubt you will even address this but prior to the merger were the CEL pilots allowed to bid A-320 FO without going through an interview?????

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? We could not bid the 320 as there were about 1000 guys that were senior that would have to bid it first. Interview did not nor has not ever entered into it. Do you have to interview to move the 75?

I would argue that after the merger there is no east or west flying. As everybody who has half a brain knows the east wouldn't even still be around. All the resources from AWA were redirected towards the new US Airways. The new internationl destinations would not have happened absent the merger. It is not 'your flying.'

So basically The East is just lucky to have any job and all east pilots should just resign now, while thanking you for allowing us to continue to work as we are being replaced.
Just for the record I am so junior Nic hardly matters, it would only be a couple hundred pilots, and with an airline our size.... But somethings are worth fighting for, only difference is, I am not trying to hurt anyones career.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Greed? That is a stretch, the East has not gotten nor will get any pay raises for a long time. The East also does not want any part of West flying. The West can name their own protections and limits. The only thing you cant have is the East jobs. It really is that simple. To sum it up the East wants nothing from the West.. The West wants the East Seats. Greedy indeed.

After what your esteemed, integrity filled MEC, tried to do to the ex CEL pilots, you have some nerve saying anything about honor. For those that don't know, the West MEC petitioned the court to have the CEL pilots removed, that's right removed, not just placed at the bottom of the combined list. Among reasons given include that the CEL only flew DHC-8's and therefore might not posess the ability to fly a larger ML aircraft.

If that is what you think is Honor and Integity you are a shoe in for ALPA national. I suggest if the opportunity ever arises, you go for it.

Funny you should use a quote that I heard mentioned while flying Dash 8's for one of the wholly-owned carriers when we were trying to negotiate a flow thru agreement with your MEC..... back in 1989 !! Next time why not try getting your facts straight before posting.

PHXFLYR

 

[FR8mastr]

Funny you should use a quote that I heard mentioned while flying Dash 8's for one of the wholly-owned carriers when we were trying to negotiate a flow thru agreement with your MEC..... back in 1989 !! Next time why not try getting your facts straight before posting.

PHXFLYR

I am not making this up, just go look at it. It was quite the eye opener for me, because at the time I was so ticked off at ALPA that I was praying for the West to take over the reigns. Needless to say that little tid bit changed my tune.
All you have to do is go look at it, I know its easier to blast me. I know it would never change your opinion of the current disagreement, but it would might change your opinion about the west MEC.