NJA Struggling?

[Ultra Grump]

Union busters bust unions.

I'm not a union buster. anymore than you are a legitimate small business owner.

In your own words, since Diesel actually is a legitimate small business owner, it would naturally follow that...

 

[brokeflyer]

the problem is management has to get the most amount of profit regardless of what that does to anyone else. Management creates this aroma of hate.

They create unhappy employees then wonder why business is bad. Then they have to blame someone, well they just created a union, the bastards.....well I can't belive my employees would turn on me. I mean i pay a 10 year capt a whole 54,000 a year!!!! I guess it must be the union's fault, cause im a expert at running this company.

Management will continue to destroy a company, look at the piss poor management at the failures on wall st......look at the piss poor management in the auto industry.

undisputed facts there.......go about your business.

 

[Semore Butts]

What a "dope" B-19.

Translation: Pilots are paid to much now and pay needs to be reduced to increase profits.

Never stated that. The challenge is for you to find the post were I did.

You must be the only person on this board that doesn't get that Diesel was "reading between the lines". (B-19=Ignoramus)

That in itself kinda says something about you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yet another lie.

Come on man... Do you honestly think we don't realize you work for FLOPS??? How stupid do you think we are? You have yet again demonstrated your low opinion of pilots.

In your case, you're really stupid if you think I work for FLOPS.

Where am I demonstrating a low opinion of pilots?

If a union is so damn smart, they should just go out and begin their own unionize airline and all of you can go flock to work at it.

They can't, because they haven't a clue as to how to run one and it is proven every day.

 

[imacdog]

Work for Flops or union-bust for Flops, it's all the same really. They pay you to union-bust. While professional pilots go about their business being productive members of society, you contribute nothing except to attempt to demoralize others. Is this what you really wanted to do when you were growing up? If not, why did you fail so miserably at what you did want to do?

 

[Freedom]

You are right on target...

Yet another lie.

Come on man... Do you honestly think we don't realize you work for FLOPS??? How stupid do you think we are? You have yet again demonstrated your low opinion of pilots.

Not only does Bob19 work at FLOPS, he is a Vice President.

Everyone at FLOPS knows this. Bob19 was hired to bust the Union drive; when he failed, he was directed to correct his failure by preventing us from solidifying to obtain a Contract.

He is still practicing his Union Busting trade, because he most likely knows that once a Contract is obtained by the Pilots, he is out of a job.

The longer he can delay it, the longer he draws his check from Options.

Therefore, I don't blame him for the attempts he makes on this Board. But if he thinks he is fooling us...he truly is the fool.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

In your case, you're really stupid if you think I work for FLOPS.

Where am I demonstrating a low opinion of pilots? By insulting our intelligence. We know who you are. If I am wrong, prove it. Where do you work?

If a union is so damn smart, they should just go out and begin their own unionize airline and all of you can go flock to work at it. Hmmm..... Isn't there an airline where the employees actually own it?

They can't, because they haven't a clue as to how to run one and it is pr oven every day. Like Bill Olsen. The former 1108 president who took on a management position answering only to Richard Santulli? Try again B19. I have a rebuttal for all your generalizations.

I went ahead and ran a spell check for you again. You're welcome.

 

[Diesel]

Oh how really wrong you are. Currently I run 3 different business and a 4th one coming online in January. So I walk in their shoes and I still throw the BS flag when i see it.


So, if the people that work for you simply came in and told you that you are going to increase their pay (thereby increasing your contribution to the goverment also), and force you to give them vacation and create work rules where they get 50% of every day off each month, (or your suppliers doubled their costs) you would just reach into your pocket and just give it to them without questioning them.

You are so full of crap you stink.
Yeah thats what you have to tell yourself to try and justify what you are doing. I make sure that all my employees are compensated very well, that they have excellent benefits and that they feel they are part of the company and have a stake in it going forward. You have done none of that at FLOPS creating such ill-will towards you and your managment idiots that the pilots have said enough is enough. Yet you still don't hear. You blame the union. You shift blame to something other than yourselves. If you looked at NJA as soon as the contract was signed and everyone was pulling the same direction on the rope profits, productivity and moral went through the roof. Yet you stick your head in the sand.


Union busters bust unions.

I'm not a union buster. anymore than you are a legitimate small business owner.

Whatever you need to tell yourself. But those that know me can vouch that I tell no lies.

 

[RNObased]

If you work for a union carrier, then you have either gone through union turmoil yourself or have put others through that turmoil.

Non-union companies can't enjoy that feeling that you appear to consider normal.

I'm not the one spreading hate, I'm non-union.

Blah, blah, blah....... B19 is awesome all of the rest of us suck. Blah, blah, blah....Unions suck and NJA is doomed, because we actually make a decent living. Blah, blah, blah....Only the great company that B19 works for will be left standing thanks to his awesome abilities at god knows what.

Did I miss something???? Maybe a couple more blah, blahs. Same old crap B19 different subject. Stick to talking about something you know and leave your hate for them. Done with you for a long time.

 

[realityman]

Yeesh!! Put B19 on ignore! Really, he'll get tired of talking to himself eventually.

First, I know Diesel and he is a legitimate business owner. I guess B19 is proven wrong yet again.

Second, I've been with NJA for almost 12 years now. We had some real turmoil for less than a year. And the returns on it were well worth it. But the vast majority of my existence here has been peaceful. We have nearly 3000 pilots here, and I'd be willing to bet that less than 5% are truly unhappy because of our union. So much for B19's theory that unions create turmoil or make its members unhappy.

Finally, the union actually REDUCES uncertainty and turmoil. When I first started here, our union was admittedly very weak. As a result, if we needed answers, about anything, from the company we simply wouldn't get them. Now, with a strong union, information flows smoothly and quickly to the union members. Want to know why something is happening the way it is in training? Just ask the appropriate union comittee and you'll get an answer quickly. This reduces turmoil.

Please just ignore B19. He continues to display that he knows NOTHING about how our union works.

Want to know how most in management operate? Just watch the news these days and see how many executives are still walking away with HUGE bonuses while the average worker suffers. It should be criminal that AIG is going to pay out $500 million in executive bonuses while accepting billions in taxpayer money to bail them out. But that's management thinking for you.

 

[DO-82 driver]

First, I know Diesel and he is a legitimate business owner. I guess B19 is proven wrong yet again.

Legitimate???? That's stretching it.

Business Owner??? There's no disputing that claim. I would further qualifying him as a "Successful Business Owner"

 

[gunfyter]

Legitimate???? That's stretching it.

Business Owner??? There's no disputing that claim. I would further qualifying him as a "Successful Business Owner"

"It makes no difference to me what a man does for a living."

It's not personal. Its business.

"Don't ask me about my business."

 

[jonjuan]

Currently I run 3 different business and a 4th one coming online in January.

MILF Hunter IV arriving Jan 2009. Sweet!!!

 

[learflyer]

Diesel, what are some of your businesses? PM if you like. Just recently furloughed, and looking for some ideas to create a second nest egg.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yeesh!! Put B19 on ignore! Really, he'll get tired of talking to himself eventually.

First, I know Diesel and he is a legitimate business owner. I guess B19 is proven wrong yet again.

Second, I've been with NJA for almost 12 years now. We had some real turmoil for less than a year. And the returns on it were well worth it. But the vast majority of my existence here has been peaceful. We have nearly 3000 pilots here, and I'd be willing to bet that less than 5% are truly unhappy because of our union. So much for B19's theory that unions create turmoil or make its members unhappy.

Finally, the union actually REDUCES uncertainty and turmoil. When I first started here, our union was admittedly very weak. As a result, if we needed answers, about anything, from the company we simply wouldn't get them. Now, with a strong union, information flows smoothly and quickly to the union members. Want to know why something is happening the way it is in training? Just ask the appropriate union comittee and you'll get an answer quickly. This reduces turmoil.

Please just ignore B19. He continues to display that he knows NOTHING about how our union works.

Want to know how most in management operate? Just watch the news these days and see how many executives are still walking away with HUGE bonuses while the average worker suffers. It should be criminal that AIG is going to pay out $500 million in executive bonuses while accepting billions in taxpayer money to bail them out. But that's management thinking for you.

Let's say he is.

Would he accept it if his help just came in one day and wanted to raise their pay to a level that would drive the cost of his product to a point he couldn't afford to have help and maintain a work week that would require him to double the amount of employees he has just to maintain coverage at the higher rates?

Of course not... he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[imacdog]

B they got you working weekends too now? Man it sounds like the union-busting biz must be rough!

 

[Freedom]

Bob19 working Weekends....

B they got you working weekends too now? Man it sounds like the union-busting biz must be rough!

Is just another sign that he is losing the battle for Hearts and Minds, and he knows it.

Tick, tick Bob19, almost time to find a new place to practice your union busting trade.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[frachonkey]

I cant imagine netjets isgoing to furlough. i have been getting calls from them monthly since my interview in aug. i actually just spoke with them last week. she said they would be calling shortly after the new year. now i know this doesnt mean they will offer a job then. If you are going to layoff, why bother calling guys about future employment.

 

[Fozzy]

Because aviation company's hire until they furlough, and furlough till they hire. :nuts:
Personally, I think we are done interviewing until 2010ish. We will take from the pool as (if)needed over the next 12 months.

The folks in Talent acquisition are the last people on earth to get the pulse of the company off of.

Good luck.

 

[gunfyter]

Foz,

That would be my WAG.

Based on the current flight activity and the post in the other thread by CastofThousands... I don't see where we need any more pilots.

 

[Diesel]

Too bad the left side didn't know what the right side was doing in terms of hiring and how many pilots were actually needed.

 

[RNObased]

Too bad the left side didn't know what the right side was doing in terms of hiring and how many pilots were actually needed.

Diesel,
If the left side and the right side starting talking then there won't be a "need" for as many on the left and right. Job security, my friend.

NJA may or may not furlough time will tell, but I won't expect any hiring either.

 

[jenex]

Furlough. It's a distinct possibility. I hear bookings are down by 20 to 25 percent.
No industry or company will be immune from this housing collapse.

 

[gunfyter]

Naaaaghgh.

Will have to see everyone booted from the 18 day schedule back to the 7&7 schedule first... before any furloughs.

If that happened it would be like we lost the equivalent of 250 pilots... because of the 36 extra days a year 18 day fixed schedule pilots fly per year. That would be like the equivalent of a 5%-10% reduction in force, without any furlough.

I cannot see people being furloughed while others work extra days for more money.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Naaaaghgh.

I cannot see people being furloughed while others work extra days for more money.

You've been at NJA longer then I have. There are guys that would sell their wife and kids just to earn a buck. If NJA furloughed and asked for volunteers to pick up flying, the list would be full of these greedy, selfish pilots.. I believe we also have many SCABS that work for us. That should say enough...

 

[gunfyter]

First of all ... there will not be any furloughs.

Aircraft are being delivered. When that changes ... lets talk again.

2nd.
People are working the 18 day schedule. When that changes ... lets talk again.

I don't see any reason for people to work that schedule while others are furloughed.

 

[skyaddict]

One thing in our favor against furloughs is that we were never remotely able to meet net new hire targets for several years-- mostly due to simulator backlogs, and also due to a few waves of rather silly ship-jumping attrition - e.g. those new hires who got typed but were domiciled in the 5 bases, had big plane envy and jumped to the first legacy who offered a job, or, even more absurdly, stooped to the likes of Skybus. So at least that failure to meet targets put a little buffer in there, along with the 18-day schedule and other factors mentioned. Plus, I think the scale of the Obama stimulus, and the fact that Europe and especially Asia (notably China) will resume their past growth rates by sometime in 2010, will help pull the globe out of recession, in turn dampening the downturn here. By then the US dollar will plummet again but domestic growth will return.

All in all, long term I think NetJets has it right in that, like Southwest at the airlines, it has a tortoise growth strategy rather than a hare strategy. And like SWA, it is the 800 pound gorilla in its industry best able to weather storms, no matter how hated they both are by competitors who pay the price. Just my two cents.

 

[RNObased]

First of all ... there will not be any furloughs.

Aircraft are being delivered. When that changes ... lets talk again.

2nd.
People are working the 18 day schedule. When that changes ... lets talk again.

I don't see any reason for people to work that schedule while others are furloughed.

At least the 18 day you see some productivity, the 15 day is a mess from a productivity stand point.

Any scenario would require a vote, and I know a lot of people that aren't in a giving mood.

 

[cldsfr79]

Before NJA even thinks about dumping guys they need to examine what their scheduling department is doing. Those guys piss away money like it’s going out of style. Don’t airline crews to planes that will be broken for several days, and don’t airline crews to a plane and then sit them in a hotel all tour or on standby every day. If they don't need crews out there have them sit stand-by at home until needed.

Look, I understand there is a cost of doing business and the cost of availability, but the waste that scheduling produces is enormous.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Is just another sign that he is losing the battle for Hearts and Minds, and he knows it.

Tick, tick Bob19, almost time to find a new place to practice your union busting trade.

Freedom is Not Free

I'm not a union buster but will accept your statement as a compliment.

You guys are the dummys that work for unions.

All the peace that the non-union fracs are dealing with right now is going to hang on for a while.

That "industry leading contract" that NJ has will create massive turmoil within a year while NJASAP is trying to dig themselves out of the whole they dug themselves into.

I'll be here to join the fun and to say "I told you so", just like I called the 3 years plus of turmoil at FLOPS and the lack of ability of 1108 to close the deal while the economy was good.

Now, the economy has bit the dust, pilots are getting laid off at FLOPS and they will be lucky to get any contract at all.

The sad part is, that with the union on the property for the last 3 years, FLOPS couldn't give them a pay or benefit increase even if the wanted to. But, the collective union is smarter than company leadership.