The NWA/DAL case is a wrap, what do you think?

[jetflier]

So, are we the same size? Do we have the same amount of planes? How about the same amount of pilots? You say we are equal in every way? We all read what Bloch said, and he was comparing the merger itself to the USAir merger, and how that merger had one airline that was failing and one that was not. I am glad you and your cohorts saw something that everyone else did not. Go back and read the context of his statement. In reality, we aren't equal in a lot of ways---especially the pay rates and smaller planes you brought into this merger. We brought EVERY ONE of your pay scales up, and you kept your frozen pensions. You will have a choice of bases soon, and more widebodies to chose from,and a fantastic new uniform along with a spify hat. All we got? A NRT hub and some upper midwest hubs that Southwest is looking at too, along with an old freighter operation that may go away, orders for 787s that may not be here for years, and a lot of older DC9s that are the bottom of our combined pay scale. Your stand alone option had you furloughing up to 300 pilots. It was in an official memo, the one your MEC chair couldn't recall. Recent retirements (about 100) have mitigated some of that, but not all of it maybe. We really aren't "equal", now are we? That doesn't mean we can't be friends, but the truth hurts sometimes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Dear Gen,

Yup, in your red and tired time zone changed eyes that may be what you are believing. But when you looked at the bottom line$, did you notice who brought the $$$$ to the merger table, (about $3.5B), and which airline makes the highest profit among the network carriers....yeah,...your airline has the biggest arse, but NWA has the biggest $clong

 

[DTW320]

So, are we the same size? Do we have the same amount of planes? How about the same amount of pilots? You say we are equal in every way? We all read what Bloch said, and he was comparing the merger itself to the USAir merger, and how that merger had one airline that was failing and one that was not. I am glad you and your cohorts saw something that everyone else did not. Go back and read the context of his statement. In reality, we aren't equal in a lot of ways---especially the pay rates and smaller planes you brought into this merger. We brought EVERY ONE of your pay scales up, and you kept your frozen pensions. You will have a choice of bases soon, and more widebodies to chose from,and a fantastic new uniform along with a spify hat. All we got? A NRT hub and some upper midwest hubs that Southwest is looking at too, along with an old freighter operation that may go away, orders for 787s that may not be here for years, and a lot of older DC9s that are the bottom of our combined pay scale. Your stand alone option had you furloughing up to 300 pilots. It was in an official memo, the one your MEC chair couldn't recall. Recent retirements (about 100) have mitigated some of that, but not all of it maybe. We really aren't "equal", now are we? That doesn't mean we can't be friends, but the truth hurts sometimes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You're right general. We weren't equal at all.....we were more profitable than you in almost every metric. Doesn't mean we can't be friends though....

Truth hurts right? I mean, I heard that right here after all...

 

[FDJ2]

We will see my man. Merger of equals is not a confusing statement.

Just as long as you realize that there is a difference between equal and identical.

 

[General Lee]

Dear Gen,

Yup, in your red and tired time zone changed eyes that may be what you are believing. But when you looked at the bottom line$, did you notice who brought the $$$$ to the merger table, (about $3.5B), and which airline makes the highest profit among the network carriers....yeah,...your airline has the biggest arse, but NWA has the biggest $clong

What you fail to see is that Steenland wanted OUT. He horded the cash, and did not expand, at all. He didn't buy new airplanes other than the 787 orders (we bought used 757ERs from AA---17 of them), and he looked for a merger partner. He used the cash as an incentive. Even my friends in the finance sector believe this. Steenland got a nice bonus for leaving, and now has an even bigger house on Lake Minnetonka. You are wrong.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You're right general. We weren't equal at all.....we were more profitable than you in almost every metric. Doesn't mean we can't be friends though....

Truth hurts right? I mean, I heard that right here after all...

More profitable, or kept more cash to find friends? Truth does hurt. The guy who lead you to all that money is already GONE. He also sold 10 or more of your 757s to Fedex to give you more cash, and your pay cuts after BK allowed even more money to flow into the coffers. Great job. See ya buddy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Dear Gen,

Yup, in your red and tired time zone changed eyes that may be what you are believing. But when you looked at the bottom line$, did you notice who brought the $$$$ to the merger table, (about $3.5B), and which airline makes the highest profit among the network carriers....yeah,...your airline has the biggest arse, but NWA has the biggest $clong

You also brought a disproportionate amount of debt. Don't fool yourself, your cash postion was from borrowed money.

BTW, did you notice who brought most of the international flying, most of the wide bodied aircraft, most of high paying jobs.

 

[General Lee]

You also brought a disproportionate amount of debt. Don't fool yourself, your cash postion was from borrowed money.

BTW, did you notice who brought most of the international flying, most of the wide bodied aircraft, most of high paying jobs.

Come on FDJ2. They did bring more analog planes, more de-ice equipment, and more cargo loaders. I think that means we are EQUAL.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

More profitable, or kept more cash to find friends? BOTH, actually!! More cash AND higher yield/profits....thanks for asking! Truth does hurt. The guy who lead you to all that money is already GONE. He also sold 10 or more of your 757s to Fedex to give you more cash, and your pay cuts after BK allowed even more money to flow into the coffers. Great job. See ya buddy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Truth really hurts doesn't it?

 

[DTW320]

You also brought a disproportionate amount of debt. Don't fool yourself, your cash postion was from borrowed money.

BTW, did you notice who brought most of the international flying, most of the wide bodied aircraft, most of high paying jobs.

Who had more long term debt? Whose ratio of debt to monthly expenses was much higher? We both had/have lots of borrowed money to be sure. Which airline was producing higher returns with it?

 

[General Lee]

Truth really hurts doesn't it?

Again good buddy, why all the cash on hand? Any reason? We all know where Steenland got the cash? You guys. And, with that cash he kept it in his special box, while the rest of us expanded (you had 176 newhires, we had 700). It's not that hard to see, really. Open your eyes best friend.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

you guys just don't stop do you? Does it make ya"ll feel BIG to act like children on the Internet?

 

[PuffDriver]

Who had more long term debt? Whose ratio of debt to monthly expenses was much higher? We both had/have lots of borrowed money to be sure. Which airline was producing higher returns with it?

If I may, merger of equals could very well be interpreted to mean that neither airline was in BK. Neither was. Both were viable. Profitability, or lack thereof, matters not. What does matter is amount and value of jobs brought to the merger. Viability is off the table, a non-player, as is the Orient vs Europe, SA, Africa, Central America--except for number and value of jobs as a result of those operations or lack thereof.

 

[FDJ2]

Who had more long term debt?

NWA's long term debt was proportionally higher than Delta's.

Whose ratio of debt to monthly expenses was much higher?

Umm, debt to revenue might be a more important matrix. Loads of debt, not much revenue to service it.

We both had/have lots of borrowed money to be sure. Which airline was producing higher returns with it?

Delta. NWA operating income 2Q2008 was a loss of $216M, DAL's was positive $131M.

We could go on and on, but it's not relevant since we were both doing relatively well in a very sick industry. We were financially equal, neither airline saving the other. OTOH, we weren't identical in the jobs brought to the merger.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

FDJ2, for what it's worth... NWA did have higher margins 3Q. Albeit not by much.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I do not think that will matter.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You're right general. We weren't equal at all.....we were more profitable than you in almost every metric. Doesn't mean we can't be friends though....

Truth hurts right? I mean, I heard that right here after all...

LMAO!:laugh:
More of your facts??

Let's consider the following then hey junior?

DAL: Revenue for latest 12 months: $20.2 billion
Debt: $10.9 billion
Unrestricted cash and short-term investments: $3.2 billion

NWA: Revenue for latest 12 months: $13.2 billion
Debt: $9.9 billion
Unrestricted cash and short-term investments: $3.2 billion

(**This information was as of the date of the merger announcement**)

Check mate sparky!
NEXT!
Or is it back to the ignore list when you can't debate??:crying:

 

[fareview]

Red,

Fins only knows how to sue. He was/is one of the original RJDC SCABS that tried to sue their way onto the dal sl. When they got their asses handed to them, he slinked away and applied, got hired, and even though acl65plt knows who he is, begged him to not reveal his name. Because he knows that had his name been revealed he would have never made it off probation(If he even is off yet). His anonimity on this board allows him to banter with his new found dal brothers(g.lee,puff, 73pylt,scope etc). These same angry(rightfully so) brothers would cut his nuts off if his true name was ever revealed. It will be interesting once this is all said and done and we have access to the dalpa webboard if we will be able to identify some of these yahoos. I especially like fngs that think we owe them thanks for the payraise. Looking forward after soc that some fng fo brings that up in the cockpit. The look on his face when the reserve shows up to replace him will be priceless. PS are you on for turkey day, and if so will see you at the pad.

So presumably you would teach a would-be son that its okay to slap your girlfriends as long you don't beat your wife.

Enough of the childish threats and stick to the debate.

fv

 

[Monster Buck]

I think it would be fun to put all you guys into the cage and watch some good smack down extreme fighting champs! Enough words lets pick up weapons!!!!!! geeeeeetttttttt uuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!:uzi: :angryfire

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2, for what it's worth... NWA did have higher margins 3Q. Albeit not by much.

Like I said, we were financially equal, we're just not identical, we have different hiring trends, growth projections and a different fleet mix to name a few.

Neither the financial health nor the nature of the transaction, Delta's acquisition of NWA, is going to be a factor in the SLI.