Rough numbers from each proposal

[nwaredtail]

nevermind

 

[General Lee]

DALPA---relative seniorty after the bottom 400 all NWA due to DC9s being smallest plane and lowest paid, plus some leaving the fleet. Delta pilots would move up 2% on average (from current relative percentage) due to those bottom 400 being all NWA.


NALPA----DOH with 10 year fence. Most Delta guys move BACKWARDS 14% in relative percentage from current location.


But hey, we are "equals......." Which of the above is closer to mirroring to that? Hmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Hey DOH is a possibility, just a very slim one.

 

[nwaredtail]

DALPA---relative seniorty after the bottom 400 all NWA due to DC9s being smallest plane and lowest paid, plus some leaving the fleet. Delta pilots would move up 2% on average (from current relative percentage) due to those bottom 400 being all NWA.


NALPA----DOH with 10 year fence. Most Delta guys move BACKWARDS 14% in relative percentage from current location.


But hey, we are "equals......." Which of the above is closer to mirroring to that? Hmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I just took my number and the guy from delta closest to me. He ends down 5% with NWA year 1, equal year 5, ahead year 10. With DAL, he goes up 2% day 1, ends up 19% year 5 and 60% year 10.

I end up the same with NWA. Under DAL proposal, down 10% day 1, 19% year 5 and 38% down year 10.

Your numbers are way off, which will surprise nobody. BTW, 1996 hire, DC-9 Capt.

 

[General Lee]

I just took my number and the guy from delta closest to me. He ends down 5% with NWA year 1, equal year 5, ahead year 10. With DAL, he goes up 2% day 1, ends up 19% year 5 and 60% year 10.

I end up the same with NWA. Under DAL proposal, down 10% day 1, 19% year 5 and 38% down year 10.

Your numbers are way off, which will surprise nobody. BTW, 1996 hire, DC-9 Capt.

Under our proposal, we all are within 2% of your current spot, and would have been exactly the same spot had we not put the bottom 400 all NWA. You are NOT down 10% from where you are NOW. Nope. You are down 2%. It is called relative percentage. You cannot add in attrition that you THINK might happen. And, I am a 1996 hire, senior 767 FO, and could now hold 738 Captain on reserve or MD88 Captain with a line. I can supposedly hold 767 Captain in LA also (a '97 hire has it now). Under your proposal, I am down 14% right off the bat. Thanks sooo much for letting us be equal in 5 years......ridiculous..... You are misleading people. Relative percentage is fair for everyone, since you do not gain or lose from where you are RIGHT NOW. It was done in the Nicelau award, and that was fair, but the DOH people don't think so.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

Under our proposal, we all are within 2% of your current spot, and would have been exactly the same spot had we not put the bottom 400 all NWA. You are NOT down 10% from where you are NOW. Nope. You are down 2%. It is called relative percentage. You cannot add in attrition that you THINK might happen. And, I am a 1996 hire, senior 767 FO, and could now hold 738 Captain on reserve or MD88 Captain with a line. Under your proposal, I am down 14% right off the bat. Thanks sooo much for letting us be equal in 5 years......ridiculous..... You are misleading people. Relative percentage is fair for everyone, since you do not gain or lose from where you are RIGHT NOW. It was done in the Nicelau award, and that was fair, but the DOH people don't think so.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are wrong, I go from 65% on NWA 's list to 72% on the combined list. And where r u in 5 years under both proposals? You don't think there will be a fence, even Nicalau had a fence until age 60 changed.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hey DOH is a possibility, just a very slim one.

I think I'll buy a Powerball ticket, "You can't win if your don't play." The odds are a little over eighty million to one, but I'm feeling lucky!

Match 5+ Powerball = 1:80,089,128

 

[~~~^~~~]

BTW, 1996 hire, DC-9 Capt.

The 767 Captain's I fly with have about your DOH.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That was the point fin.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hey, I'm just up here in the Choir Loft. Preach it Brother!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Up in the Loft causing trouble.. I love it.

 

[General Lee]

You are wrong, I go from 65% on NWA 's list to 72% on the combined list. And where r u in 5 years under both proposals? You don't think there will be a fence, even Nicalau had a fence until age 60 changed.

In 5 years? Remember we have just as many or MORE retirements scheduled than you do in 10 years. So, in 10 years you and I will have moved up the same amount, with both of our sides retiring a large amount. You like to throw out 5 years from now as a point, but forget about our retirements as well.

I do think there will be fences, for aircraft. That will benefit us since your senior pilots are on a lot of narrowbody planes, not able to bid up for widebodies thanks to the Roberts award, which is now over. Since you never did retire a bunch, or have had any wide scale displacements off of large equipment other than the DC10, you have pent up seniority itching to get onto widebodies. We have to watch that, since it isn't our job to make up for the Roberts award. Thank gawd your new manning formula will help relieve that, going to 2 Captains for flights over 12 hours, instead of 1.


And as I edited above in my previous post, apparently I can hold 767 Captain in LA right now, since a '97 hire is doing it there. You said you were on the DC9, right? There is the difference. Not making fun, just giving you some reality.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[number11]

In 5 years? Remember we have just as many or MORE retirements scheduled than you do in 10 years. So, in 10 years you and I will have moved up the same amount, with both of our sides retiring a large amount. You like to throw out 5 years from now as a point, but forget about our retirements as well.

I do think there will be fences, for aircraft. That will benefit us since your senior pilots are on a lot of narrowbody planes, not able to bid up for widebodies thanks to the Roberts award, which is now over. Since you never did retire a bunch, or have had any wide scale displacements off of large equipment other than the DC10, you have pent up seniority itching to get onto widebodies. We have to watch that, since it isn't our job to make up for the Roberts award. Thank gawd your new manning formula will help relieve that, going to 2 Captains for flights over 12 hours, instead of 1.


And as I edited above in my previous post, apparently I can hold 767 Captain in LA right now, since a '97 hire is doing it there. You said you were on the DC9, right? There is the difference. Not making fun, just giving you some reality.


Bye Bye--General Lee

01! You r simply amazing! Honestly, I hope for your sake that you are dead on with all your SLI facts! What and the hell r you going to do if you have to retire from this board after 12000 posts! I can't wait until the BS is done! Either way best of luck!

 

[General Lee]

01! You r simply amazing! Honestly, I hope for your sake that you are dead on with all your SLI facts! What and the hell r you going to do if you have to retire from this board after 12000 posts! I can't wait until the BS is done! Either way best of luck!

I hope I don't have to, since I enjoy this board and the banter. As far as the BS, yes, I want it over too. As long as it is fair, that is fine with me. Now we all have different versions of fair, which is the problem. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Here's a rough wag that was posted on the ALPA forum. To date none of the numbers have been refuted. If some one has different numbers, feel free to post them.

----------Dal proposal-ratio-------Nwa proposal-doh

Top 1800---Dal 60% Nwa 40% ---Nwa 78% Dal 22%

Top 3130---Dal 62% Nwa 38%----Nwa 61 % Dal 39%

Top 5500--Dal 61% Nwa 39%-----Nwa 48% Dal 52%

Bottom 6410--Dal 57% nwa 43%--Nwa 40% Dal 60%

Bottom 3200--Dal 55% nwa 45%--Nwa 27% Dal 73%

Bottom 2500--Dal 53% Nwa 45%--Nwa 24% Dal 76%

Bottom 950---Dal 37% Nwa 63%--Nwa 17% Dal 83%

DAL brings 70% of all the wide bodied flying to the merger. Only 30% of NWA pilots are in wide bodied aircraft or 757 international categories, after the merger 44% of all flying will be wide bodied.

 

[Fly4hire]

Here's a rough wag that was posted on the ALPA forum. To date none of the numbers have been refuted.

The only thing that matters is how the arbitrators see it. You or I making our case here, or believing in our respective MEC positions while thinking the other guys is smoking something means nada.

If FI is indicative of the difference in positions yet to be bridged, I cannot see anything other than an arbitrated settlement.

I'm looking forward to this all being over and it hopefully something that does not cause years of animosity.

"If NALPA/DALPA (circle one) wasn't so FUBAR and saw the reasonableness of our position, we'd have a fair SLI by now....."

 

[nwaredtail]

DAL brings 70% of all the wide bodied flying to the merger. Only 30% of NWA pilots are in wide bodied aircraft or 757 international categories, after the merger 44% of all flying will be wide bodied.[/QUOTE

]

72% of your "widebodys" pay the same as the 757. So, take away the 80 767's that pay the same as the 757, and you actually only bring 31 widebodies to the table, pay wise Not that many if you ask me.

You can't propose a list based on pay then try to say that the 767 is different than a 757 even though the pay is the same. Although yourself and bi-polar boy will try.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You need to realize that we brought the 757 pay up to the 767 pay. It is realized in the original formulas we used to come up with pay rates, not the other way around.

 

[Truckdriver]

]

72% of your "widebodys" pay the same as the 757. So, take away the 80 767's that pay the same as the 757, and you actually only bring 31 widebodies to the table, pay wise Not that many if you ask me.

You can't propose a list based on pay then try to say that the 767 is different than a 757 even though the pay is the same. Although yourself and bi-polar boy will try.

And tell us how your A330 pay compared to the 75/6 pay before all this began? What about your 757 pay?

 

[nwaredtail]

And tell us how your A330 pay compared to the 75/6 pay before all this began? What about your 757 pay?

Doesn't matter. The NWAALPA Neg Committee was able to get us all a raise, thank you very much, because we brought so much to the table.