Seniority has everything to do with longevity

[Scope out RJ's]

What jobs? The ones the West are losing. Your jobs are are like fake money. Worthless.
AWA would be gone by now without USAIR. Your unemloyed pilots have no right to our flying.

STOP THE PRESS!
What flying are you referring to MCDUSH?
You claim right here not to even be a US Airways pilot:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465






Then of course here you claim to be a United pilot!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

Min. Fleet and min. Block hours. Thats what we brought and that is what our pilots get. You have no right to displace our pilots with your lousy job. LAS and PHX is what you get.

What WE doosh bag? You are NOT A US AIRWAYS PILOT! YOU SAID SO YOURSELF!

Your jobs at the time of merger were going away, because you bases bring no value to the airline. Low yield markets and low yield jobs. We saw this coming.
Thats why we were never going to allow a Nic award to see the day. It does not protect our jobs.

M

Its very funny when you talk of low yeild jobs. Last time I checked US Airways were the lowest paid pilots in the industry! LOWER than those dreaded AWA pilots.

MCDU- A PFT kinda guy who's just one airline strike away from his next job!

 

[reepicheep]

I was at usair in 2004 and guys (including me) were taking their flight bags home with them after trips because the place could shut down any day. I don't remember anyone doing this when I got to AWA.

 

[PHXFLYR]

MK82 -

not to re-hash, but there are seperate contracts under which "two pilot groups" operate (and of course I do not want to see anybody EAST or WEST on the street).

ON a different issue, but same path - why is it OK that a 12 year Captain at the WEST, makes more than a 12 year Captain at the EAST - based on your thinking - I would assume that you feel that is legally wrong also?? And please don't take the question as an attack on your view.

Metrojet

Because when everyone sat down to negotiate the TA Agreement, Parker said right from the start that this Agreement would not include any discussions on new payrates except for the recently ordered EM190s ,and that the existing rates for both east and west would remain in effect until a new joint contract was hammered out in joint contract negotiations (the negotiations you guys walked away from when the Nicolau list came out,remember? ) That your Negotiating Committee agreed to those terms and conditions without so much as a whimper and that your pilot group didn't make a stink about it like you always do when things don't go your way simply defies logic. Ergo, the difference in payrates. You asked is it "OK that a 12 year Capt in the west makes more than a 12 year Capt in the east ?" I guess not. But like your new boss Parker is so found of telling us out here "You get what you negotiate" Nobody's just going to give it to you.


PHXFLYR

 

[igneousy2]

This is such a BS discussion...DOH does not work in every merger...in my opinion the EAST guys are all about DOH because it benefits THEM, but I think many if not most outsiders looking in would consider the terms of the arbitration quite fair. It is very unfortunate that US Air was a very bad career choice to make and I am very sorry for all of you but it happened so get over it.

I think that any merger agreement should keep in there same spot after the agreement as they were before the agreement...no gains or losses for anybody ideally. Which is what seems to have more or less happened here.

Should someone lose there Captain seat just because there was a merger...hell no...should someone get there job back at the expense of another just because there was a merger...hell no. Should someone get furloughed after working at a growing company just because there company bought another company...absolutely not.

 

[Turtle21]

... because it benefits THEM, but I think...

I noticed that you CAPITALIZED both "THEM" and "I"...


There ya go. You argue that everyone is only able to think "It is all about me."

What's new? :laugh:

 

[cactusboy53]

Apparently the company's legal counsel seems to think otherwise.

It's been sent to the courts to decide, Weasel. Does a judge's decision have the same, more or less chops than final and binding arbitration??

 

[jetjockey#1]

Most mergers don't involve airlines with 17-year pilots on the street.

I wish NWA and USAIR east would've merged. It would've been such a nice transition. Little overlap, a lot of common equipment, and oh yes, the work groups, specially the pilots, would've been a piece of cake to merged. DOH from day one, everybody happy..... what a lost oportunity.....

 

[Metrojet]

Because when everyone sat down to negotiate the TA Agreement, Parker said right from the start that this Agreement would not include any discussions on new payrates except for the recently ordered EM190s ,and that the existing rates for both east and west would remain in effect until a new joint contract was hammered out in joint contract negotiations (the negotiations you guys walked away from when the Nicolau list came out,remember? ) That your Negotiating Committee agreed to those terms and conditions without so much as a whimper and that your pilot group didn't make a stink about it like you always do when things don't go your way simply defies logic. Ergo, the difference in payrates. You asked is it "OK that a 12 year Capt in the west makes more than a 12 year Capt in the east ?" I guess not. But like your new boss Parker is so found of telling us out here "You get what you negotiate" Nobody's just going to give it to you.


PHXFLYR

PHXFLYR -

I agree with you that Mr. Parker is "fond" of telling us "you get what you negotiate".

I look forward to a joint agreement which protects your "seat" which you brought to the merger, and my "seat" as well as longevity (which fences could accomplish), where we both get paid equal pay for each seat and a profitable company for the long term.

Metrojet

 

[TWA Dude]

... and my "seat" as well as longevity (which fences could accomplish), ...

Fences don't protect from furloughs. End of story.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

...the worker with the most years of service is first promoted within a range of jobs subject to seniority, and is the last laid off, proceeding so on down the line to the youngest in of service...

This is very nice but it doesn't define or address labor integration and that is the real issue. This piece of information is defining seniority because of a case involving discrimination. It has nothing to do with the East/West labor dispute.

...Taking a snap shot does not take into consideration the dynamics of this industry. Looking at a furloughed CAL or DAL pilot a few years ago and looking at his position now shows how fast things change. A snap shot of DAL and CAL a few years ago would be completly different...

Thank you. You just confirmed what the West pilots have been saying all along. Your "snapshot" of the East seniority list doesn't take into consideration the condition of their airline among many other things.

Most mergers have always been DOH and about every regional has merged based on DOH. BEX and Eagle, Piedmont and Allegheny, Air Wisconsin and MAX. The list goes on.

I haven't looked it up so I don't know if most mergers have been DOH or not but I'll be that if you research it you'll find that most of the mergers of the past involved two seniority lists that were more closely relative in the first place. DOH in those cases probably produced a relative integration which made DOH an acceptable solution.

Unfortunately, when the bottom guy on one list has been there for 18 years and the top guy of the other list has been there for 20 years DOH isn't acceptable. That would be a windfall for the bottom guy with 18 years. Do you see now?

All mergers with DOH work out.

I remember in college one of my professors warned me that when people use absolute terms they are usually full of crap.

Its all about me and how I can leapfrog my fellow Union pilot.

Yeah, we know. We're dealing with this attitude now coming from USAPA.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

I noticed that you CAPITALIZED both "THEM" and "I"...


There ya go. You argue that everyone is only able to think "It is all about me."

What's new? :laugh:

i think you're on to something. All those people who capatalized their i's are selfish and greedy!:laugh:

 

[Turtle21]

Fences don't protect from furloughs. End of story.

End of story...

ROTFLMAO!!:laugh: :laugh:

This drama is so notorious it won't die until all the pilot's great grand kids have passed on.:smash:

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHXFLYR -

I agree with you that Mr. Parker is "fond" of telling us "you get what you negotiate".

I look forward to a joint agreement which protects your "seat" which you brought to the merger, and my "seat" as well as longevity (which fences could accomplish), where we both get paid equal pay for each seat and a profitable company for the long term.

Metrojet

A little "friendly" advice, although it'll be a cold day in hell before I'll ever consider an "eastie" a friend.
Don't hold your breath...especially if your little "pipe dream" raises Parker's cost of doing business.


PHXFLYR

 

[Ocity]

PHXFLYR -

I agree with you that Mr. Parker is "fond" of telling us "you get what you negotiate".

I look forward to a joint agreement which protects your "seat" which you brought to the merger, and my "seat" as well as longevity (which fences could accomplish), where we both get paid equal pay for each seat and a profitable company for the long term.

Metrojet

If you indeed flew the tomato jet, than you are aware that your precious "longevity" contains 3-6 years of furlough time. In other words, your longevity is sh*t.

Have a nice day.

 

[waveflyer]

how is usapa justifying that there were mergers (trump shuttle) w/in their group that didn't go DOH? are they ignoring it? or planning on rectifying it w/ their new list?
If not, don't you lose credibility?
It's also a shame that furloughs weren't mitigated by USAPA using the arguments that new hires had to go first. If USAPA makes that argument- the legal costs of making the case - the possible training costs if the union wins- would have mitigated some of the furloughs. To not try that tactic is confusing