Being let go on probation

[11thHour]

Most of us go through rough patches in life (I'm in a real bad one myself right now - probably losing my medical). Whatever you do, don't sit and stew over it. Talk to some close friends or family. It's happened, life will go on. It can be hard to see out when you are at the bottom of the pit, but eventually you make it out. Best of luck to you.

 

[Ezralite]

I completely agree. Things will get better. I'm just a little edgy right now.

My last post wasn't directed at you. I'm frustrated because I don't take alcohol and flying lightly. I just don't want to be made out as something I'm not. Since I've started this thread I've been flooded with PM's of people wanting to help me and offering job leads. I don't want this thread to turn into something that makes me out to be a young punk who has issues with alcohol...all due to some overblown story of something that happened a year ago.

I appreciate all the help and encouragement from everyone so far and all those that have sent me PM's.

It seems to me that your problem is not that you drink too much, but that you don't drink enough. If you had put in the effort required to build your tolerance up then you wouldn't have been shaking your fanny up on a table after three and a half white wine spritzers.

Also, you might want to buy a pair of steel toed boots, find the guy who was showing everybody the party pictures, and kick him repeatedly in the nads.

 

[flyboyike]

The fact of what happened a year ago in training (which was nowhere near the big frat party it has been made out to be on here....if it was I think I, and pretty much the entire class, would have been let go right then and there) would come back to bite me after a year of me trying to be the most professional and courtious pilot I possibly could.

One of the inherent problems in this industry is that too often it puts in power small, miserable people who have long memories and short tempers. Meaning, you never know what will be held against you and when. Never mind one year down the road, some of these SOBs remember things for decades.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Go fly cargo. You're not "drunk" until you're being carried out on a board to be thrown in the street. "Too drunk" is only used in extreme situations (eg. "Bob got a little too drunk last night and wound up at the morgue".) And no cheese-eating punk will cost you your job over what you do when you're not on duty because no one believes that what you do when you're not on duty is any of their business.

Last I heard Ameriflight and Flight Express were still hiring. Airnet is hiring in to a pool, I think. Something to think about, anyway.

Regardless of what you do, don't sweat this kind of thing. Maybe they needed to get rid of some junior F/Os and don't want to pay unemployment. Maybe some anti-fun type is still playing payback for all those lockers he was stuffed into. Who knows. Relax, go get another job, and call that chick and tell her to lose your number.

 

[Thurman Merman]

You have to be careful, we had a guy fired for going hard the night before recurrent, which I thought was the whole purpose of recurrent. The company drove him to the hospital for a BAC test, was above FAA(company) limit and was terminated. Company reasoning was he was on duty at the start time of recurrent and violated company alcohol policy. Weak and ridiculous but technically correct.

 

[cfi_greg]

As long as I have been at SkyWest I have seen very few people fail there probation ride. More fail there upgrade then probation at SkyWest. I don't know why everyone is so scared of the non-union thing. It was way worse when I was at Eagle.

This guy is not even talking about SkyWest. He is TSA or Eagle. My guess Eagle they had very hard probation/check rides.

I didn't even know Skywest had a first year probation. Pretty low key here compared to other airlines with unions.

 

[imacdog]

I didn't even know Skywest had a first year probation. Pretty low key here compared to other airlines with unions.

Your first year pay certainly reflects a probationary year.

 

[cfi_greg]

Your first year pay certainly reflects a probationary year.

Yes indeed it does, but as far as the sim and oral or should I say what oral.

 

[siucavflight]

No oral for Skywest guys?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

No oral for Skywest guys?

I'm picturing the chick in your avatar asking that question in a very disappointed voice! :beer:

 

[siucavflight]

She is hot!!

 

[Ezralite]

No oral for Skywest guys?

They don't have time for oral when their management is always giving them anal.

 

[siucavflight]

Has something changed in the states? When I left Eagle the Skywest guys were paid the best, great work rules, and large bonus checks. What are they doing to the Skywest guys?

 

[cfi_greg]

Has something changed in the states? When I left Eagle the Skywest guys were paid the best, great work rules, and large bonus checks. What are they doing to the Skywest guys?

Nothing at all! But don't let anyone in on the secrete. Besides if your airline isn't doing well the next thing to do is bash the ones that are.

 

[taysha]

Dont put the company you got let go from on your next application. Go back to your CFI job and make it look like it was continued employment from Day1.

 

[Abernathy]

Dont put the company you got let go from on your next application. Go back to your CFI job and make it look like it was continued employment from Day1.

Also, always take advice from this guy.

 

[OPECJet]

Also, always take advice from this guy.

What does he say about your avatar?

Pretty well a spineless move by Eagle if you ask me. If the dude is a problem child, fire him. Don't have the training dept do it...

On that note, I'll sure as hell feel safe next time I'm on Eagle knowing the training department is used for disciplinary measures. You sure learn a lot when you fear for your job....

 

[laserman2431]

What does he say about your avatar?

Pretty well a spineless move by Eagle if you ask me. If the dude is a problem child, fire him. Don't have the training dept do it...

On that note, I'll sure as hell feel safe next time I'm on Eagle knowing the training department is used for disciplinary measures. You sure learn a lot when you fear for your job....

In theory, I agree with your statement. from a practical point of view, the company would be irresponsible for doing it any other way than what they did.

Even though a person on probation can be fired without cause, there are many ways for the employee to challenge the termination. By documenting a failure through an FAA approved training program, the company significantly reduces their exposure to risk. I don't like it any more than you do but that is just the way the system works.

 

[xshuttlefa]

I'd like to express my thanks for the advice given by most of the people here. I have,unfortunately, found myself in the same position as the original poster (let go on probation after recurrent didn't go so well) and was also wondering about what to do.

I don't want to hijack this guys thread, so if you want details, please PM me.


I just wonder how many more posts there will be like this. There are quite a few low-time guys coming through recurrent right now.

 

[laserman2431]

That's a good point. I know most training departments would hate to admit this but I think the supply and demand does have something to do with how strict they are. Less than a year ago most regionals were hiring almost anyone with a pulse. Now most are looking at a furlough. Training can afford to set the bar a little higher now. Of course, that's no excuse. Just emphasizes the need to be on top of your game at all times. If you know your systems, memory items, limitations and maneuvers cold, there's not much they can do to you.

 

[crxpilot]

bad advice

Dont put the company you got let go from on your next application. Go back to your CFI job and make it look like it was continued employment from Day1.

Ummm, yeah, I'm gonna have to say that would be some really bad advice to follow from both an ethical and legal standpoint. :erm:

 

[OPECJet]

In theory, I agree with your statement. from a practical point of view, the company would be irresponsible for doing it any other way than what they did.

Even though a person on probation can be fired without cause, there are many ways for the employee to challenge the termination. By documenting a failure through an FAA approved training program, the company significantly reduces their exposure to risk. I don't like it any more than you do but that is just the way the system works.

A probationary pilot can still be terminated without too much hoo ha through administrative methods much easier than a non probationary pilot. The biggest difference as you pointed out is having a documented failure through the approved training program. I was a rep for a while. Just about the only place where we'd be guaranteed trouble getting someone's job back is through a training issue. An arbitrator simply will not give someone's job back who has been labeled as troubled.

The rub comes from the fact that a pilot group can't trust a training department that is used as a disciplinary department.

Hopefully as already said, we won't be seeing many more of these type posts...

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Man, we have some sanctimonious SOBs here.

Alcohol and airlines are serious issues to be taken seriously. That being said, I know far more guys who have cut way too loose on an overnight (or during a training event night) than have not. I know I have... There is one night after the sim in recurrent I remember in particular (shudder!).

Being on probation is different, and you do have to mind your P's and Q's. That being said, go find a flying job... ANY flying job and show that you can stay employed and out of trouble. You are 21, fer chrissakes! Another chance will come around.

Chin up.

 

[rickair7777]

That's a good point. I know most training departments would hate to admit this but I think the supply and demand does have something to do with how strict they are. Less than a year ago most regionals were hiring almost anyone with a pulse. Now most are looking at a furlough. Training can afford to set the bar a little higher now. Of course, that's no excuse. Just emphasizes the need to be on top of your game at all times. If you know your systems, memory items, limitations and maneuvers cold, there's not much they can do to you.

Interesting point. I wonder how many regionals regret how low they actually did lower the bar recently...and are now trying to correct the problem.

 

[7574EVER]

You are 21, fer chrissakes! Another chance will come around.

Chin up.

Eh almost 24; but, close enough. I need to go knock out the ATP and hopefully open up a few more doors. I know that 21 and 24 is splitting hairs; but the point of me mentioning that was thank God I'm not 21. I couldn't even imagine how much I would be kicking myself in the rear right now if I dropped out of college to chase the airline dream! That certainly wouldn't have proved worth it.

 

[acaTerry]

No oral for Skywest guys?

You said "no oral"......:laugh: :laugh:

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Eh almost 24; but, close enough. I need to go knock out the ATP and hopefully open up a few more doors. I know that 21 and 24 is splitting hairs; but the point of me mentioning that was thank God I'm not 21. I couldn't even imagine how much I would be kicking myself in the rear right now if I dropped out of college to chase the airline dream! That certainly wouldn't have proved worth it.

Sorry.. Somehow I got the wrong impression. Well, I guess you are screwed.

Jokes! Naw, you'll be fine. Time has a way of taking care of these things. It is a tight job market, so it might be a while.

 

[7574EVER]

Sorry.. Somehow I got the wrong impression. Well, I guess you are screwed.

Jokes! Naw, you'll be fine. Time has a way of taking care of these things. It is a tight job market, so it might be a while.

HAHAHA. No, I agree. I know that things work themselves out. Even when you know it's all going to be fine it can be hard to see the light when your at the bottom of the hole (yes acaterry I said "hole").

I just want to get a hold of my PRIA record and figure out what I'm going to say in future interviews.

 

[on autopilot]

I don't have a whole lot of advice except to stay positive and come up with a really good answer because it will come up on your next interview. Some pointers in that area, never pass the blame to someone else, tell them what you learned (even if you aren't asked directly), and assure them that your experience since you were let go guarantees it won't happen again.

On another note, what airline is giving a "probie oral?" Is it given before or after recurrent ground school? Why the emphasis on the MEL for FO's? It's important to know, but it's not super critical since it is the Captain's responsibility to determine airworthiness. Was your company downsizing anyway?

American Eagle gives a probie oral. The horror stories are true.

 

[on autopilot]

7474ever,
I am still a member of Eaglelounge, and someone posted your first post on this thread. A few of the guys on Eaglelounge are instructors, apparently they know who you are, and they say that they knew who you were before you even came in for your ride, meaning that your name is one that had been brought to their attention as a "problem child" so whats the story????

As far as resigning goes, now that all the airlines use PRIA any place that you interview will see the two busts and the resignation. Not trying to get you down, just trying to find out the whole story.

Again I am happy to help you out with a good job, just let me know.

Yep, typical training center ops !!!!