Flying Struck Work???

[SF340Guy]

What is ALPAs or Teamsters or any other unions definition of flying struck work?

If Republic begins flying for Midwest, and they have an established schedule, before the Midwest pilots walk out, if the Republic pilots continue to fly their schedules, but refuse changes to fly what Midwest has canceled is this "Struck Work"?

Please, i am not trying to start anything, I am just curious, because I have never been through this before.

 

[Andy Neill]

When Comair went on strike, they defined struck work as any increase in frequency or guage along the struck city pairs. Although SkyWest began service SLC-DSM (Comair had a route CVG-DSM) it was not struck work. Neither would the flying you described in your scenario. On the other hand, I recall that Delta did increase frequency and/or guage on ATL-CVG with no repurcussions.

 

[SF340Guy]

What is guage? Again my lack of knowledge...

 

[Andy Neill]

Size of aircraft.

 

[TAWS]

I've heard alot of people are fired up about the RAH / Midwest thing. Some points to remember:

1. Nobody asks the Pilots around here about business decisions.
2. None of the Pilots I've talked to think it's good for us EITHER!! - At what point are the tables turned on us??????
3. It is a violation of the CBA and the union is trying to expedite a grievance to stop this in it's tracks.
4. Everyone feels for the the Midwest guys - it sucks!!
5. What financial mess is Midwest in, that they would do this kind of deal?? Are they about to close the doors?
6. Our guys will probably cross an INFORMATIONAL PICKET , which does not make them Scabs. If they don't they will be fired and then good luck on getting your job back.
7. Even Airtran guys are asking our guys about this and chiming in - why aren't you lending Midwest money????

If you guys are really concerned about this topic (rightfully so), then have your MECs contact our union and talk it out with those guys.

P.S. I'm not a scab and will not cross a picket line (strike picket), as will all of the guys I've talked with. So if you are going to strike, make sure you get a committment from our union that they will back us up!!

 

[Skaff]

If it looks like a duck...

 

[TAWS]

If it looks like a duck...

What a f*cking Moron ...............

 

[Goose Egg]

What is ALPAs or Teamsters or any other unions definition of flying struck work?

I'll field this one. If anyone who is on ALPA's poop list even looks at an airplane airplane or merely sets foot in an airport, this is flying struck work. If you fly routes that used to belong to mainline, that is also flying struck work. If you vote down ALPA in a union drive and then draw a paycheck from that same company, this is also flying struck work (because those routes belong to ALPA, dangit!).

These people, who have the audacity and gall to challenge the ALPA uber alles mentality, should be blackballed and never allowed to fly again. All flying should be preserved for the "brotherhood."

Heil ALPA!!!

I hope this clears things up.

-Goose

 

[rogerwilcoout]

I'll field this one. If anyone who is on ALPA's poop list even looks at an airplane airplane or merely sets foot in an airport, this is flying struck work. If you fly routes that used to belong to mainline, that is also flying struck work. If you vote down ALPA in a union drive and then draw a paycheck from that same company, this is also flying struck work (because those routes belong to ALPA, dangit!).

These people, who have the audacity and gall to challenge the ALPA uber alles mentality, should be blackballed and never allowed to fly again. All flying should be preserved for the "brotherhood."

Heil ALPA!!!

I hope this clears things up.

-Goose

Uh, what?

 

[CX880]

I'll field this one. If anyone who is on ALPA's poop list even looks at an airplane airplane or merely sets foot in an airport, this is flying struck work. If you fly routes that used to belong to mainline, that is also flying struck work. If you vote down ALPA in a union drive and then draw a paycheck from that same company, this is also flying struck work (because those routes belong to ALPA, dangit!).

These people, who have the audacity and gall to challenge the ALPA uber alles mentality, should be blackballed and never allowed to fly again. All flying should be preserved for the "brotherhood."

Heil ALPA!!!

I hope this clears things up.

-Goose

HEIL ALPA, ALL HEIL ALPA!!!!

 

[king10pin02]

Uh, what?

yay sarcasm

 

[Minimaniac]

Struck work is defined by the striking party, and is defined clearly at that time for the benefit of other pilot unions. If there is a strike at Midwest, they will let everyone know what they see as being struck work. Once that work is defined, we at RAH:

1) Will not fly it, as we are not scabs, and never have been scabs

2) Are, by CBA, compelled to not fly the struck work

3) Are no longer obligated to fly that work

4) Are protected from disciplinary actions by the company


Everyone seems so quick to judge, but very few of you have any actual experience with these matters. Strikes and struck work are legal actions and principles, and legality does not move an expeditious pace. we at RAH cannot refuse to fly for Midwest until they announce a strike, and then ALPA defines struck work for this particular strike. On another front, we at RAH are mounting our own legal challenge to this new deal in protection of our CBA. However, legal challenges are not made overnight, and run on the schedule of the courts.

So everyone settle the flip down, and let this play out. NO PILOT AT RAH has crossed a picket line, flown a Midwest plane against the advisement of our union, or acted in any way contrary to the CBA of RAH or Midwest.

 

[Propsync]

Midwest can't strike, they have no legal standing to do so. Republic is not replacement work. Midwest is removing aircraft from service, not replacing aircraft in service.

I honestly don't understand how so few people can figure this out. Midwest is almost dead. Republic is just holding the gates until the Delta merger. TPG put up money. NW didn't. Enter Republic. They put up money for NW to fulfill its (Republic's) duty to shareholders, fly all of the planes. The bonus is that there will be some sort or reward after the merger. I really think this money puts Comair at a big risk.

Ultimately, this really isn't a union matter. All of you keep talking it up like it's the worst thing that ever happened.

 

[WSurf]

Republic is not replacement work. Midwest is removing aircraft from service, not replacing aircraft in service.

Ehhhhh? Could you explain that? Are they taking out a 717 and replacing it with a 17?


I am lost, so what exactly is going on?

 

[Goose Egg]

Good, glad somebody caught it.

-Goose

 

[Skaff]

I wish the Republic union would grow some balls and stand up and say, "we are not taking mainline jobs , this whole deal stinks and it's not right". If this goes down, your pilot group won't have my respect anymore. This is a low blow, you have a "unified" pilot group, now you have to make a decision. What's it going to be?

 

[Propsync]

Ehhhhh? Could you explain that? Are they taking out a 717 and replacing it with a 17?


I am lost, so what exactly is going on?

Yeah. Bear with my poor analogy. When I buy a new car I remove my old car from service, then I put my new car in service. It happens on the same day, but I never have more than one car at any one time.

The 717's will be returned to Boeing and removed from the certificate as the 170's come on. From a fuzzy picture, it looks like even the N#'s are starting where the 9 remaining 717's stop.

Like I said before W, this is not a union issue. People are carrying on like it is. Nobody cuts 78 percent of its fleet just for wage cuts at mainline. The transfer of aircraft is also not an issue, because Midwest won't last that long. If and when the Delta merger goes, Midwest will be the first thing gone. TPG will sell the gates to Delta, then pull whatever cash they have left in it and put it ch. 7. Airplanes will go back to Republic. Paint the aircraft again and you have a nice minihub (it will never be as big as it was in early 2007).

One thing I learned from this: If an airline is removing aircraft from service and no furlough letters are sent, expect more furloughs. The 80's were parked at about the same time furlough notices went out, as well as this new announcement. Many are collecting a check for a month or two and not even flying before their furlough.

 

[Minimaniac]

I wish the Republic union would grow some balls and stand up and say, "we are not taking mainline jobs , this whole deal stinks and it's not right". If this goes down, your pilot group won't have my respect anymore. This is a low blow, you have a "unified" pilot group, now you have to make a decision. What's it going to be?

by your statement, it appears we already don't have your respect. Our union is currently mounting a legal challenge to the Midwest deal. Since there are currently no Midwest planes to fly, we can't exactly refuse to show up to work, now can we? The only front to fight on right now is the legal one, and we are doing so. I really don't understand what else you expect us to do at this time.

 

[Propsync]

I wish the Republic union would grow some balls and stand up and say, "we are not taking mainline jobs , this whole deal stinks and it's not right". If this goes down, your pilot group won't have my respect anymore. This is a low blow, you have a "unified" pilot group, now you have to make a decision. What's it going to be?

I wish people had better command of what's really going on here. I wish some of these 'professionals' knew what a scab is, and what a strike is. So many experts on here calling Republic strikebreakers and Midwest isn't even on strike.

My thoughts to Republics' flight crews. You all have one heck of an image and PR battle to fight, if the great flightinfo is any gauge of the matter.

 

[king10pin02]

The 717's will be returned to Boeing and removed from the certificate as the 170's come on. From a fuzzy picture, it looks like even the N#'s are starting where the 9 remaining 717's stop.

the n# on the airplane did not change. this was a former mid atlantic (usair) airplane. there are several other MA/MD tail numbers and has nothing to do with the Midex N#s

 

[j41driver]

Struck work is defined by the striking party...

Exactly. No strike = no struck work.

 

[Propsync]

the n# on the airplane did not change. this was a former mid atlantic (usair) airplane. there are several other MA/MD tail numbers and has nothing to do with the Midex N#s

Gotcha. The picture looked like a nine. Guess it was an eight. Thanks.

 

[Skaff]

So as long as it's not struck work you can just screw over another pilot group? By the way, I never used the word scab.

 

[Propsync]

So as long as it's not struck work you can just screw over another pilot group? By the way, I never used the word scab.

I know you didn't, but others have. But really, what choice do Republic pilots have? Trust me, if Delta wasn't in the picture, they'd have turned out the lights at Midwest months ago. Republic isn't screwing anyone. TPG was able to jettison 16 717's. I think that's a much bigger screwjob. And if this is so groundbreaking, why aren't Frontier and Spirit doing the same thing?

Also, be very afraid after the entire MEC at Midwest get furloughed. Many of the top 100 are not very pro-union. I'd be more concerned about them screwing everyone.

 

[Ezralite]

HEIL ALPA, ALL HEIL ALPA!!!!

Shouldn't you HoJet pilots be saying "HEIL HULAS"?

 

[Skaff]

I know you didn't, but others have. But really, what choice do Republic pilots have? Trust me, if Delta wasn't in the picture, they'd have turned out the lights at Midwest months ago. Republic isn't screwing anyone. TPG was able to jettison 16 717's. I think that's a much bigger screwjob. And if this is so groundbreaking, why aren't Frontier and Spirit doing the same thing?

Also, be very afraid after the entire MEC at Midwest get furloughed. Many of the top 100 are not very pro-union. I'd be more concerned about them screwing everyone.

Trust you? Republic pilots have come on this sight and rejoiced about the fact that they probably won't have to furlough due to the repositioning of the aircraft to Midwest. Seems a little cowardly doesn't it. Republic isn't screwing anyone? Ask a Midwest pilot if they think that is true. Seems that you are a little disconnected. It's easy to act helpless when your job is secure. What if the table was turned and express jet pilots were going to bring there planes to do your flying (Couldn't really happen because mainline owns all of your flying) and you were going to have to furlough because of this deal. Would you feel xjet is doing you a disservice?

 

[Minimaniac]

Republic is still furloughing. The Midwest deal has had zero impact on that. Why, you ask? The furloughs (forgot the final number, but in the 150 range) cover the 15 E135's being sold and the handful of CRJ's being returned as leases expire. We never furloughed a number that corresponded to the loss of the above mentioned aircraft AND the parked Frontier airplanes. RAH management has been planning around this Midwest deal for a while now... we the pilots never knew what was coming, but the seemingly small furlough number indicated that we needed more pilots than projected fleet size dictated.

Anyhow, I digress. You say that Republic pilots are rejoicing because the Midwest deal has helped avoid furloughs. That is wrong. You are wrong. Perhaps in coming to grips with your incorrect information, you will begin to hate a little less and desire to learn a little more.

 

[Speedtape]

Exactly. No strike = no struck work.

You are correct. It's called an Alter-ego airline. The end result is the same.

 

[Skaff]

I stand corrected. You've furloughed some pilots. Doesn't change the fact that others have rejoiced in this flying to prevent more furloughing. If management has been planning this for a while, it still shouldn't change the reaction of your pilot group. 75% of the mainline pilots are losing there jobs because of an agreement that your management is pursuing. Be careful there. Those pilots will not be all to happy, and there have been blacklist lists' for lesser evils. Be unified and do the right thing.

Republic is still furloughing. The Midwest deal has had zero impact on that. Why, you ask? The furloughs (forgot the final number, but in the 150 range) cover the 15 E135's being sold and the handful of CRJ's being returned as leases expire. We never furloughed a number that corresponded to the loss of the above mentioned aircraft AND the parked Frontier airplanes. RAH management has been planning around this Midwest deal for a while now... we the pilots never knew what was coming, but the seemingly small furlough number indicated that we needed more pilots than projected fleet size dictated.

Anyhow, I digress. You say that Republic pilots are rejoicing because the Midwest deal has helped avoid furloughs. That is wrong. You are wrong. Perhaps in coming to grips with your incorrect information, you will begin to hate a little less and desire to learn a little more.

 

[sitnresrv]

Actually, the top 100 or so pilots at Midwest are the most pro union. Why? Because the contract and various decisions were very heavily weighted towards seniority. Remember the original merger fund assessment was a straight dollar amount regardless of pay or seniority, which was opposed and then set to a percentage amount. The contractual pay is very heavily favoring the most senior pilots. Yearly pay increases are much greater for the very senior and the more junior pilots have a very, very tiny pay raise. The work rules for reserve are very thin and the senior lineholders have many more protections. I'm sure this is very common with most contracts, but to say the top 100 are anti union just isn't accurate in my opinion. I haven't heard any senior pilots very vocal against the union, if so, they certainly haven't spoken out against it. I have heard more junior pilots speak out very negatively against the union bias towards the very senior.