Flying Struck Work???

[j41driver]

Struck work is defined by the striking party...

Exactly. No strike = no struck work.

 

[Propsync]

the n# on the airplane did not change. this was a former mid atlantic (usair) airplane. there are several other MA/MD tail numbers and has nothing to do with the Midex N#s

Gotcha. The picture looked like a nine. Guess it was an eight. Thanks.

 

[Skaff]

So as long as it's not struck work you can just screw over another pilot group? By the way, I never used the word scab.

 

[Propsync]

So as long as it's not struck work you can just screw over another pilot group? By the way, I never used the word scab.

I know you didn't, but others have. But really, what choice do Republic pilots have? Trust me, if Delta wasn't in the picture, they'd have turned out the lights at Midwest months ago. Republic isn't screwing anyone. TPG was able to jettison 16 717's. I think that's a much bigger screwjob. And if this is so groundbreaking, why aren't Frontier and Spirit doing the same thing?

Also, be very afraid after the entire MEC at Midwest get furloughed. Many of the top 100 are not very pro-union. I'd be more concerned about them screwing everyone.

 

[Ezralite]

HEIL ALPA, ALL HEIL ALPA!!!!

Shouldn't you HoJet pilots be saying "HEIL HULAS"?

 

[Skaff]

I know you didn't, but others have. But really, what choice do Republic pilots have? Trust me, if Delta wasn't in the picture, they'd have turned out the lights at Midwest months ago. Republic isn't screwing anyone. TPG was able to jettison 16 717's. I think that's a much bigger screwjob. And if this is so groundbreaking, why aren't Frontier and Spirit doing the same thing?

Also, be very afraid after the entire MEC at Midwest get furloughed. Many of the top 100 are not very pro-union. I'd be more concerned about them screwing everyone.

Trust you? Republic pilots have come on this sight and rejoiced about the fact that they probably won't have to furlough due to the repositioning of the aircraft to Midwest. Seems a little cowardly doesn't it. Republic isn't screwing anyone? Ask a Midwest pilot if they think that is true. Seems that you are a little disconnected. It's easy to act helpless when your job is secure. What if the table was turned and express jet pilots were going to bring there planes to do your flying (Couldn't really happen because mainline owns all of your flying) and you were going to have to furlough because of this deal. Would you feel xjet is doing you a disservice?

 

[Minimaniac]

Republic is still furloughing. The Midwest deal has had zero impact on that. Why, you ask? The furloughs (forgot the final number, but in the 150 range) cover the 15 E135's being sold and the handful of CRJ's being returned as leases expire. We never furloughed a number that corresponded to the loss of the above mentioned aircraft AND the parked Frontier airplanes. RAH management has been planning around this Midwest deal for a while now... we the pilots never knew what was coming, but the seemingly small furlough number indicated that we needed more pilots than projected fleet size dictated.

Anyhow, I digress. You say that Republic pilots are rejoicing because the Midwest deal has helped avoid furloughs. That is wrong. You are wrong. Perhaps in coming to grips with your incorrect information, you will begin to hate a little less and desire to learn a little more.

 

[Speedtape]

Exactly. No strike = no struck work.

You are correct. It's called an Alter-ego airline. The end result is the same.

 

[Skaff]

I stand corrected. You've furloughed some pilots. Doesn't change the fact that others have rejoiced in this flying to prevent more furloughing. If management has been planning this for a while, it still shouldn't change the reaction of your pilot group. 75% of the mainline pilots are losing there jobs because of an agreement that your management is pursuing. Be careful there. Those pilots will not be all to happy, and there have been blacklist lists' for lesser evils. Be unified and do the right thing.

Republic is still furloughing. The Midwest deal has had zero impact on that. Why, you ask? The furloughs (forgot the final number, but in the 150 range) cover the 15 E135's being sold and the handful of CRJ's being returned as leases expire. We never furloughed a number that corresponded to the loss of the above mentioned aircraft AND the parked Frontier airplanes. RAH management has been planning around this Midwest deal for a while now... we the pilots never knew what was coming, but the seemingly small furlough number indicated that we needed more pilots than projected fleet size dictated.

Anyhow, I digress. You say that Republic pilots are rejoicing because the Midwest deal has helped avoid furloughs. That is wrong. You are wrong. Perhaps in coming to grips with your incorrect information, you will begin to hate a little less and desire to learn a little more.

 

[sitnresrv]

Actually, the top 100 or so pilots at Midwest are the most pro union. Why? Because the contract and various decisions were very heavily weighted towards seniority. Remember the original merger fund assessment was a straight dollar amount regardless of pay or seniority, which was opposed and then set to a percentage amount. The contractual pay is very heavily favoring the most senior pilots. Yearly pay increases are much greater for the very senior and the more junior pilots have a very, very tiny pay raise. The work rules for reserve are very thin and the senior lineholders have many more protections. I'm sure this is very common with most contracts, but to say the top 100 are anti union just isn't accurate in my opinion. I haven't heard any senior pilots very vocal against the union, if so, they certainly haven't spoken out against it. I have heard more junior pilots speak out very negatively against the union bias towards the very senior.

 

[PCL_128]

You are correct. It's called an Alter-ego airline. The end result is the same.

This is not an alter-ego. Everyone needs to take a step back and give the RAH pilots some breathing room. They have done nothing wrong, and I doubt they will do anything wrong. The decision to do flying for MEH was not theirs, it was Bedford's and Timmmaaaaay's. Until a lawful strike is called, the RAH pilots have no grounds to refuse any flying.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I stand corrected. You've furloughed some pilots. Doesn't change the fact that others have rejoiced in this flying to prevent more furloughing. If management has been planning this for a while, it still shouldn't change the reaction of your pilot group. 75% of the mainline pilots are losing there jobs because of an agreement that your management is pursuing. Be careful there. Those pilots will not be all to happy, and there have been blacklist lists' for lesser evils. Be unified and do the right thing.

How about you mind your own business and worry about yourself. Leave the real decisions to the grown-ups and trust that we will do the best we can.

 

[Skaff]

How about you mind your own business and worry about yourself. Leave the real decisions to the grown-ups and trust that we will do the best we can.

Trust you. Nice. Mind my own business? You don't know me and you don't know my business. All I know is there aren't many Repubic types speaking up about how this is wrong. Mostly just apathetic statements and avoiding the real issue.

 

[Minimaniac]

Be careful there. Those pilots will not be all to happy, and there have been blacklist lists' for lesser evils. Be unified and do the right thing.

Hmmm, a threatening tone. Here is a little more free education for you- Our Union has been in contact with the midwest ALPA group, and we have both explained our positions to each other. Both groups were blindsided by this deal, and both groups recognize that the management teams of both companies are to blame for this. Having personally spoke to some Midwest pilots, I can say that there is no widespread animosity towards the Republic pilot group. The EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS (something I hope one day you can be) at Midwest understand the legal processes involved in overturning this deal, and the constraints imposed upon the pilot groups by the Railway Labor Act. We have discussed the apparent contract violations with their group, and now we all are waiting for this to unfold at its painfully slow pace. Ethically, the group at RAH is on the same page as the Midwest group. However, ethics do not hold up in court, and we are not experts on the Midwest ALPA contract, so we must pursue a different legal path than Midwest Pilots. We will pursue the avenue of violations against our CBA. While this may seem selfish to some, since we at RAH have less to immediately lose from this deal, I hope you come full circle and understand that this is the only legal challenge we can mount.

Anyhow, I understand your negative feelings Skaff, but there has been enough time since the deal was announced for you to cool down and start applying a little reason and intelligence to your views of this matter. Nothing is going to be resolved until November at the earliest, I imagine (unless we can get an injunction) so you might as well settle down, and show a little patience. Think before you speak. Gather facts. Use reason. Do all those things make a good captain, because I know you don't stumble through your job everyday with this poor attitude (at least I hope not, because it is quite dangerous).

 

[Speedtape]

This is not an alter-ego. Everyone needs to take a step back and give the RAH pilots some breathing room. They have done nothing wrong, and I doubt they will do anything wrong. The decision to do flying for MEH was not theirs, it was Bedford's and Timmmaaaaay's. Until a lawful strike is called, the RAH pilots have no grounds to refuse any flying.

Lawful strike? It's my understanding that if you are not in Sec 6 negotiations and under oversight of the NMB that a collective bargaining unit can strike anytime they want.

You may not be an official alter-ego, but you will be Doing Business As an alter-ego the first flight you take under Midwest colors. It's easy to say that you don't make the decisions, that your management does, but who is flying the airplane? In my book, that is a decision that you make! Even Dr. Phil could see through that one!

 

[Donsa320]

Lawful strike? It's my understanding that if you are not in Sec 6 negotiations and under oversight of the NMB that a collective bargaining unit can strike anytime they want.


No, I don't think so. If you are not in negotiations you would still be under a contract. Under the RLA your contract is extended indefinetly after the amendable date. If you "strike" then that would be unlawful and you will be in court instantly. There will be a restraining order ssued and if you persist, jail time is in your immediate future.
When I say the collective "you" I mean your union officers and in some cases individual members. Ask the AA guys about that. Then came the civil lawsuits, again against individual members.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Trust you. Nice. Mind my own business? You don't know me and you don't know my business. All I know is there aren't many Repubic types speaking up about how this is wrong. Mostly just apathetic statements and avoiding the real issue.

Honestly, I could care less about your business and I'm not sure I want to know you either. Why should we have to waste our valuable resources fielding a PR campaign against people like you who have no direct bearing on the issue and drain our energy? Energy that we could be using to address the real issue. Just STFU and let us take care of this! I can assure you, about 99.9% of us don't want this to go through. I can also assure you as stated 50 times before, that our union is in contact with Midwest's union and we are grabbing the bull by the horns. Now go play with yourself and think happy thoughts. uke:

 

[labbats]

The telling thing will be if RAH has to find people to fly in MKE due to lack of volunteers. If they wind up paying for everyone's hotel on a TDY, then the pilots are not to blame. However, if people willingly bid for MKE then they are to blame.

I can pretty much guarantee that RAH planned on bidding this without paying for every crew's hotel and round the clock per diem in MKE. Stick it to them by having everyone at that airline refuse to bid for MKE.

 

[Axel]

The telling thing will be if RAH has to find people to fly in MKE due to lack of volunteers. If they wind up paying for everyone's hotel on a TDY, then the pilots are not to blame. However, if people willingly bid for MKE then they are to blame.

I can pretty much guarantee that RAH planned on bidding this without paying for every crew's hotel and round the clock per diem in MKE. Stick it to them by having everyone at that airline refuse to bid for MKE.

Not quite true, unfortunately. The RAH contract contains a provision by which vacancies that are not bid will be assigned in reverse order of seniority. By that logic, any bases established by the company to support their little maneuver should end up involuntarily staffed by the most junior pilots on the seniority list.

Unless, as you said, people bid for it. That would be bad.

There are a couple of hooligans shouting from the sidelines with no direct stake in this issue. Shout on. Without the standing to comment you are shouting only to hear yourself shout.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Trust you. Nice. Mind my own business? You don't know me and you don't know my business. All I know is there aren't many Repubic types speaking up about how this is wrong. Mostly just apathetic statements and avoiding the real issue.

Okay, i'll bite. First of all it's not wrong, nor is it right for that matter. It's simply free market capitalism at work. I'll say it again; there is no right or wrong with respect to what's happening in this situation and the actions of the pilots at Republic.

I wish this wasn't happening. Midwest is a great product and it's a shame to see such high quality positions with higher pay and benefits be replaced by positions with less of both. Additionally, it's truly a shame that so many people are going to be financially and emotionally affected. I sincerely feel sorry for them.

But, for the internet idiots here, i'll say it one last time. What's happening is not wrong or the fault of the pilots at Republic. It's simply a further reduction of our passion and livelihoods and just sad. . .