Nwa Hiring

[Monster Buck]

What is this thread about again?

With the passage of this joint agreement .....NWA will be short on staffing ( due to manning requirements in the contract ) correct? A need to hire? Will both carriers hire to meet these needs? or just Delta?

That's all there is now.

 

[Superpilot92]

What is this thread about again?

With the passage of this joint agreement .....NWA will be short on staffing ( due to manning requirements in the contract ) correct? A need to hire? Will both carriers hire to meet these needs? or just Delta?

If Nwa needs to hire between now and soc (which seems likely IMHO) then the hiring will come from Nwa .

 

[General Lee]

Heyas Nu,

Did you mean section 3?

Maybe Nu was thinking about his Section 8 in the Military? Was his nickname "Klinger" and did he wear dresses? Regardless, WELCOME ABOARD!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[licorice]

Heyas FDJ,

And this is where your rhetoric falls apart. In ONLY the pay rates was parity achieved. What about increased DC contributions? (oh yeah, I forgot, you're still on the B-scale for that until 2013)...what about the increased manning required? what about the extra day off every month on reserve? what about the vastly increased percentage of higher paying international widebody jobs that you might enjoy? (even in your worst nightmare--a relative SLI)
The loss of so many other PWA components was a huge step backwards for many. Evidently not too many (14%)--a small minority, wouldn't you agree?

Is it a net gain or loss? Depends on your perspective. 319/320 drivers got hammered. 757 crews did OK.
319/320 drivers got what? between 7%-10% pay increase and you call that "hammered"?..My! what overstated rhetoric! And 757 crews merely did "OK" with a 16% raise. I would venture to say most people would consider a 16% payraise more than "OK"! Just imagine for a moment, NuGuy, an across the board 3.5% payraise from your CURRENT rates, how happy would you be then? (DAL already had 1.5% raises due for the next 3 years)
I know over at DAL the sun rises and sets by section 3, but that's not true everywhere. Some of us appriciate that there is more to a PWA than pay rates. -Yes, and some of us go way too far in "rhetorically" minimizing SIGNIFICANT pay increases and SIGNIFICANT improvements in opportunities to fly larger equipment to more destinations. Somewhere in management's accounting, they attach a cost to each item in the PWA. Pilots do the same, although probably more on a subjective basis.

Sure, there was more money. Deduct what we lost, or will be forced to pay (health insurance), and in quite a few NWA's guys mind, it was an improvement, but a VERY minor one. --Yeah, ask the 757 capt. if his 16% raise at DCC and 1/1/09 is a "VERY minor" improvement.. He can buy a lot of insurance with 22,000 extra dollars laying around every year!

Guys voted --overwhelmingly-- for a minor improvement. I'd expect them to. No harm there, but certainly no windfall, though.--but certainly better than you would have got as a stand-alone--which would have been "0" "goose egg" for the next 3 years...

Nu

Nu, why weren't all the QOL items you lost addressed by your MEC? Didn't they participate in the negotiations? Didn't they "sell" this contract to you as an "improvement" and not a "VERY minor improvement" I have to assume the NWA MEC bears the majority of responsibility for not bringing over all the QOL items from your contract, afterall, DAL lived up to their word and brought payraises and equity from LOA19..Or could it be...no...your MEC TRADED qol items FOR "parity on day one" It was YOUR MEC that made little mention of qol items but made it an all-encompassing, make-or-break, ignore everything else, one-issue contract for NWA--"PARITY". Be careful of what you ask for...you just might get it....

 

[NuGuy]

Nu, why weren't all the QOL items you lost addressed by your MEC? Didn't they participate in the negotiations? Didn't they "sell" this contract to you as an "improvement" and not a "VERY minor improvement"

Actually, I was VERY impressed how our MEC presented this contract at the roadshows.

It was very matter of fact, with clear delinations of what was gained and what was lost.

In one column, what we gained, in another, what we lost. No pushing, no fear mongering, just "guys, here are the facts, and make your best call on it". Their position was not that it was an "improvement", as such, but rather a "you win some, we lose some", but overall, you might do better than what you were doing.

There was no hard sell.

What about increased DC contributions? (oh yeah, I forgot, you're still on the B-scale for that until 2013)...

Yup. And that's hurting your point, not helping.

minimizing SIGNIFICANT pay increases and SIGNIFICANT improvements in opportunities to fly larger equipment to more destinations

They're not as significant once you subtract what you lost, which is my point. As for the flying opportunties, larger equipment (and more of it) was already in the pipeline.

Yeah, ask the 757 capt. if his 16% raise at DCC and 1/1/09 is a "VERY minor" improvement.. He can buy a lot of insurance with 22,000 extra dollars laying around every year!

True, but if he has to pay out two times what he was out pocket for the same coverage, it's no longer %16. If he no longer receives time and a half for over 80, that knocks a chunk out the "%16" as well.

but certainly better than you would have got as a stand-alone--which would have been "0" "goose egg" for the next 3 years...

Also not true. Signficant gains to our BQ contract were made mid-term. You just have to know how to take advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself.

Nu

 

[The General]

Ok......My NWA class was axed. I was one class too late. Got the poolie for a year letter so I'm still building time for the majors in my RJ. I would like to make it to "a" seniority list before I get too pruny.

me too, off by one class. i used to think i'd never get a call, but now things may looking up... but its hard to tell with awesome posts like this one......

 

[licorice]

Actually,

I was VERY impressed how our MEC presented this contract at the roadshows.

---But not very impressed with all the QOL items they managed to (not) bring over to the JPWA. You remain deafeningly silent on the role of your MEC in this "VERY minor" improvement of a contract. Nu, doesn't an 86% majority reflect a certain level of satisfaction with the contract? ie. greater % of yes voters=greater level of satisfaction. You might be able to convince a us that it was a barely adequate contract had it carried by only say, 51% to 49%

Their position was not that it was an "improvement", as such, but rather a "you win some, we lose some", but overall, you might do better than what you were doing.

An awful big chance you were taking there...you "might" do better....you "might" not, I suppose. Gosh what a hard choice you must have had! Must have been a real "cliffhanger" on election night! -the outcome being in such doubt over there.

There was no hard sell.

(there didn't NEED to be a hard sell)

As for the flying opportunties, larger equipment (and more of it) was already in the pipeline.

(but not here before the merger, and will happen sooner for you now thanks to the 80% more widebody flying Delta brings to the merger)

True, but if he has to pay out two times what he was out pocket for the same coverage, it's no longer %16. If he no longer receives time and a half for over 80, that knocks a chunk out the "%16" as well.

But add back in a "chunk" for double overtime pay at a much higher rate. (greenslip)

Also not true. Signficant gains to our BQ contract were made mid-term. You just have to know how to take advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself

. What, were you going to "BOB" your way into 16% payraises between now and 2011?

Nu, your MEC gave up everything in your contract for one issue--PARITY. Now that you have it you feel you have to convince us that it wasn't an improvement, but you don't have to convince us...just the arbitrators. Your own MEC characterized your old contract as "B-scale" and Delta's as "lucrative" --my, my how that tune has changed!

 

[Superpilot92]

Whats this thread about agian?

 

[DYLIN]

I was on the third floor a few days ago.

Not a very cheery attitude from most there anymore, as those types of jobs are the ones that are going to be consolidated the most and moved to ATL.

I can't confirm nor shoot down any hiring rumors; I didn't get any info regarding that from anyone up there as there weren't any rumors of it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Keep the faith. We will be operated separately until there is a SOC and that should mean we will need to start classes up between now and then. I've heard rumors that it will be this winter for the summer 09 season and that it will be 100-150 pilots.

It still rumor at this point but the most positive one I've heard in a while. I have a friend in your same class so I've had my ear to the wall for anything news worthy.

Hearing anything about advance entitlements for open positions prior to SOC?

 

[Superpilot92]

Hearing anything about advance entitlements for open positions prior to SOC?

We have those every month and have continued to Award advanced positions monthly. In fact the APA results for this bid should be out tomorrow or the next day. FWIW

 

[ERfly]

Whats this thread about agian?

Good question.

So bottom line, is NWA going to hire anymore before they become Delta?

 

[Superpilot92]

Good question.

So bottom line, is NWA going to hire anymore before they become Delta?

Its looking more and more likely but its still all up in the air.

 

[DTW320]

319/320 drivers got what? between 7%-10% pay increase and you call that "hammered"?..My! what overstated rhetoric! And 757 crews merely did "OK" with a 16% raise. I would venture to say most people would consider a 16% payraise more than "OK"! Just imagine for a moment, NuGuy, an across the board 3.5% payraise from your CURRENT rates, how happy would you be then? (DAL already had 1.5% raises due for the next 3 years)

Guys voted--overwhelmingly-- for a minor improvement. I'd expect them to. No harm there, but certainly no windfall, though.--but certainly better than you would have got as a stand-alone--which would have been "0" "goose egg" for the next 3 years...

NWA's contract had 1.5% raises every year for the next 2 years and then 2% on 1/1/2011. And why should 757 get 16% and 320 get less than half that %?

But add back in a "chunk" for double overtime pay at a much higher rate. (greenslip)

I hope he lives in base since it only applies to same/next day. If he commutes do you really think he'll see as much greenslip $ as he did for any/all over 80 1.5X (including vacation,training,reporting pay,standby pay,....anything over 80)?

Nu, doesn't an 86% majority reflect a certain level of satisfaction with the contract? ie. greater % of yes voters=greater level of satisfaction. You might be able to convince a us that it was a barely adequate contract had it carried by only say, 51% to 49%

The majority of Yes voters voted Yes mainly because they believed that voting this down would NOT result in getting anything better and would likely cause things to get worse....NOT because it was a windfall or they had a high level of satisfaction.

 

[NuGuy]

Nu, your MEC gave up everything in your contract for one issue--PARITY. Now that you have it you feel you have to convince us that it wasn't an improvement, but you don't have to convince us...just the arbitrators. Your own MEC characterized your old contract as "B-scale" and Delta's as "lucrative" --my, my how that tune has changed!

Heyas,

Aha, now we come down to the crux, and why you seem so wrapped up around the axle about it. You feel like the arbitrators "owe" you something in exchange.

Believe me, every item that was given up in the NWA PWA has a very carefully calculated dollar amount attached to it. I'm sure that will be laid out quite carefully. Subtract out the LOA19 gains you got because of the merger, and the two contracts were about par value.

Your own MEC declared a number of times that the JPWA and the SLI are unrelated. I'm sure that the arbitrators will look at those statements as well.

But not very impressed with all the QOL items they managed to (not) bring over to the JPWA. You remain deafeningly silent on the role of your MEC in this "VERY minor" improvement of a contract. Nu, doesn't an 86% majority reflect a certain level of satisfaction with the contract? ie. greater % of yes voters=greater level of satisfaction. You might be able to convince a us that it was a barely adequate contract had it carried by only say, 51% to 49%

Hardly. It only says that a lot of guys thought it was a marginal improvement, which it was. Most of the NWA guys on this thread have already told you it wasn't that great of an improvement.

Greenslips are a pale comparison to premium pay. Almost all lines at NWA are over 80, so even after monthly bidding, most pilots are already receiving premium pay. ANYTHING they add from open time, for any part of the month, adds to that. Very flexible and permits long range planning.

Waiting around home, praying the company will approve a trip for a greenslip for the NEXT DAY is hardly the same. Forget commuting to that. Sounds like a good plan for townies, though. But I hope DAL isn't planning on staffing the airline with that.

What, were you going to "BOB" your way into 16% payraises between now and 2011?

Sorry, I don't know of this Bob you speak of. The MEC warns the company on occasion that their staffing model is inadequate. What the company chooses to do about that information is out of our hands. I do know that the company ponied up some very significant gains when their modeling fell short and needed the pilot group to help out. That's the way things work.

Nu

 

[Noserider76]

And why should 757 get 16% and 320 get less than half that %?

The same guys fly the 757 and 767 here and they both pay the 767 rate. Your 757 was paying a narrowbody rate and was brought up to the 767 rate resulting in a bigger raise.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FIN;
On the AE front. There will be a few before SOC. The million dollar question is whether there will be bases for us in the current NWA bases, and NWA bases in our current bases. It goes with out saying that a lot of our lift is going to be shifted here in the next six months. They are trying to figure out the details of how to do it. If they do an AE with 7ER in DTW, MSP and SEA I am sure that SEA will be senior and DTW and MSP would go junior.
Likewise, I am sure that the NWA guys would jump on an ATL 744 bid. Needless to say there are interesting times ahead.

They are trying to delay the current AE as long as possible so that there can be some significant backfill on it. The longer the better.
Also they have finalized the summer 09 schedule. Now they are going to all of the department heads to see if they can support it. We stated yes, but we would need to hire for it. Stay tuned. The DGS guys think that we will hire in late fall, the others, early next year. Either way there should be new guys coming in before SOC. If this happens on both sides it is a good thing for all of us.

 

[DTW320]

The same guys fly the 757 and 767 here and they both pay the 767 rate. Your 757 was paying a narrowbody rate and was brought up to the 767 rate resulting in a bigger raise.

BS. The old lame argument that won't die. Prior to JPWA your 767 paid 10% more than our 757 and at NWA the 757 paid less than 4% more than A320. Under the JPWA 757 pays 8% more than A320.

Many NWA No voters voted so because of the inequity of the raises by category.

 

[NuGuy]

BS. The old lame argument that won't die. Prior to JPWA your 767 paid 10% more than our 757 and at NWA the 757 paid less than 4% more than A320. Under the JPWA 757 pays 8% more than A320.

Many NWA No voters voted so because of the inequity of the raises by category.

Heyas DTW,

Forget it. This guys motivation for this argument is clear. He feels that they "saved us", either as an operating concern (who had a consistently better operational profit?) or because of a slight improvement due to the JPWA, ignoring that they got their own LOA19 gains already because of the merger as well.

He's looking for a "payback" at the arbitration.

Delta hubris, nothing more.

Nu

 

[Noserider76]

BS. The old lame argument that won't die. Prior to JPWA your 767 paid 10% more than our 757 and at NWA the 757 paid less than 4% more than A320. Under the JPWA 757 pays 8% more than A320.

Many NWA No voters voted so because of the inequity of the raises by category.

Sorry to harsh your mellow. I see what you mean. In order for DL guys to get the published 5% raise the 757/767 had to go from $160 to $168 which resulted in $144 to $168 for the NWA guys.

It looks like the question should be, "why wasn't the 320/319 brought up to 737/7/8/9 rates?, which would have been 16% for you as well. I don't know the answer to that either but my guess is that since the 319 is 45% of the fleet they decided to go with the lower number.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Could we put this in the past tense...as it should be?

Set new goals, then work to achieve them.

TOGETHER

 

[NuGuy]

................

 

[Superpilot92]

Could we put this in the past tense...as it should be?

Set new goals, then work to achieve them.

TOGETHER

I am in

 

[~~~^~~~]

FIN;
On the AE front. There will be a few before SOC. The million dollar question is whether there will be bases for us in the current NWA bases, and NWA bases in our current bases. It goes with out saying that a lot of our lift is going to be shifted here in the next six months. They are trying to figure out the details of how to do it. If they do an AE with 7ER in DTW, MSP and SEA I am sure that SEA will be senior and DTW and MSP would go junior.
Likewise, I am sure that the NWA guys would jump on an ATL 744 bid. Needless to say there are interesting times ahead.

They are trying to delay the current AE as long as possible so that there can be some significant backfill on it. The longer the better.
Also they have finalized the summer 09 schedule. Now they are going to all of the department heads to see if they can support it. We stated yes, but we would need to hire for it. Stay tuned. The DGS guys think that we will hire in late fall, the others, early next year. Either way there should be new guys coming in before SOC. If this happens on both sides it is a good thing for all of us.

Yes, that is what I'm curious about.

The 787 can't be that far away either, 18 months, maybe. I just saw NWA/DAL's a day ago. It should be performing certification flying this fall. Yet, I've not heard a peep about it.

New bases would open seat locks and relocation packages on both sides, and it is probable that there will be some very large displacements around SOC time. Surely management wants to avoid pilots in training and stuff in moving vans.

As you pointed out, I think they could do indoc on a CD and give a pilot the full training course before SOC. Why not? As much as we junior pilots would like the idea of a SEA777B, or ATL787B (for NWA folks), avoiding out of seniority moves would benefit everyone in the long run.

Avoid hopping the bus to Boeing during the KSEA overnights. There are reported cases of SJS all over the 787 final assembly area.

 

[NuGuy]

Avoid hopping the bus to Boeing during the KSEA overnights. There are reported cases of SJS all over the 787 final assembly area.

Hehe, avoid the 787 sim/FTD area at NATCO as well. They finally had to put a sign up that said "go away" to shoo the gawkers away so the Thales people could get to work.

You can still see the drool stains on the carpet, though.

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Though it would be nice to sit in a 787, I will be happy with the 767 I am currently flying for quite some time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ACL: Careful, I was OK until I noticed the overhead panel is a cleaned up version of the 767's, with everything people like about the 75. Then I looked at the FO's HUD and the fever started. The only cure, I'm told, is a four day trip in and out of JFK with a divert and re-route on a red eye go home leg. Some have had success with a large dosage of Volume II.

If Superpilot is exposed, I'm not sure he will recover.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite funny.
Really I do not care what I fly as long as there is a large steady paycheck there for my family.

 

[Meiguy]

Hey ACL. On that AE thats up in the air. Are they talking about pushing it back to Novemberish or you talking maybe next month?

 

[General Lee]

Hehe, avoid the 787 sim/FTD area at NATCO as well. They finally had to put a sign up that said "go away" to shoo the gawkers away so the Thales people could get to work.

You can still see the drool stains on the carpet, though.

Nu

Did they get it on THALE? Are you a THILLY THALLY?


Bye Bye--General Lee
(yes, I do know Thales is the company that made the sim) ;0