IXLR8
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OUCH!!! Good one!
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Nwa Hiring
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General Lee
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That's true, and if Lee Moak does turn into Lee Choak, then we will elect Stevens to represent all of us.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
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We do not have an LAX 764ER base. We used to though. We have a 757/767ER base there, a domestic 757/767 base, and a 73N base. And one more thing, just remember that some of you guys will get that raise (20%) and then bid larger aircraft in ATL or LAX, and add even more money, even though, as you said, you cannot hold a widebody at your current seniority at your airline. Your raise could be more like 40 or 50%. Not bad at all..... Regardless, WELCOME to the group.
Bye Bye--General Lee
20%???
Highest raise at NWA under the JPWA is A330 FO at 12.25%. Every other category is a lesser % raise, even before factoring in higher medical, loss of over 80 premium,lower reserve guarantee, etc.
As for bidding larger a/c in ATL or LAX, do you know something about the SLI that we don't? If so, please share it.
DUDES
WTF????? This is a thread about 'possible' hiring at NWA, not a dick measuring contest.... GIVE IT A FüKIN REST NOW you stupid monkeys.....
What I would like to know is how many newhires go along with the rumor.... I got friends who are interested in joining the NEW DELTA...
If anyone has any info on that, post it. If not, post your stupidity somewhere else...
WTF????? This is a thread about 'possible' hiring at NWA, not a dick measuring contest.... GIVE IT A FüKIN REST NOW you stupid monkeys.....
What I would like to know is how many newhires go along with the rumor.... I got friends who are interested in joining the NEW DELTA...
If anyone has any info on that, post it. If not, post your stupidity somewhere else...
I meant that NWA was ready to join with Delta and stand up to management as one group.
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Heyas FDJ,
Smart move. In consideration of this, I won't re-post/comment on what you had up.
Nu
Oh please, spare me.
I was just commenting on all the whining going on prior to the JCBA about the DALPA contract being so lucrative and NALPA pilots being stuck on their self described "B" scale contract. Plenty of revisionism now though.
I'll furnish you the quotes from your own MEC Chairman commenting on the lucrative DALPA contract versus what he described as a B scale NALPA contract if you'd like.
Also, I'd much rather have 777s than 787 orders. The 777s pay more, are a proven production aircraft with firm deliveries scheduled this winter and most importantly they are on the ramp not on a future order book of an aircraft that hasn't flown yet.
Go ahead and comment all you like.
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General Lee
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No, what I meant was you could bid ATL or LAX and fly something LARGER than you are flying now (hey, we have newhires in 767ERs), and get an EXTRA raise ontop of the 10% raise or whatever.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Fly4hire
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He said that? Not surprised, although you guys probably hear more from our MEC Ch than we do.
I would like to see the quotes, and where/when they were said.
Thanx
Noserider76
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Pretty hypocritical coming from a guy who can never "not" comment on anything. I read your stuff and just shake my head.
Here's just a few, you might want to review your own MEC's communications, a nifty video taped NALPA press conference in April and Dave Stevens Congresional testimony as well.
Ziplines 14 Apr 2008
“The point has already been made to us by Delta management that they already have a “B scale” at Northwest, and that they will need to maintain it by phasing in harmonized wages.”
http://crewroom.alpa.org/NWAMEC/Portals/379/Special%20ZIPLINES%202008-0414%20FINAL.pdf
Northwest's pilot's union has expressed the opinion that the deal has been structured around a lucrative contract for Delta pilots, and it was likely that they would suffer if parity was not exercised. This could result in simmering resentments in the work place.
"The labour discord that will result from the current structure of this merger is likely to overwhelm the potential economic positives. We will not tolerate being a B-scale airline due to an unfair contract," union president Dave Stevens said.
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/airlines/20080417_deal.html
Northwest's pilot's union claims the deal was structured around a new fat contract for Delta pilots and Northwest pilots will suffer, resulting in class warfare on the flight decks. "The labor discord that will result from the current structure of this merger is likely to overwhelm the potential economic positives. We will not tolerate being a B-scale airline due to an unfair contract," union president Dave Stevens said.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Delta_Northwest_AirlinesMerger_FarFromDone_197677-1.html
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Courtesy of NWA management, we are faced with a new buzz word – ‘harmonization.’ This is another way of saying management isn’t offering NWA pilots pay parity for four years. There is nothing new here; this is effectively a re-run of Bob Crandall’s B-scale. This proposal is a serious roadblock to a new contract.[/font]
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=111727
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but wasn't YOUR MEC involved in the negotiations for the JPWA? I was under the impression (maybe it was just a rumor) the NWA MEC was somehow, involved. When you saw that it was clearly inferior to your old contract did you not complain to your MEC? Didn't they have road shows? Did you not complain to them with the same inspired, detailed, impassioned vehemence which you have thus far reserved exclusively for "Delta" ears? I fear not, NewGuy....Your group overwhelmingly endorsed it with an EIGHTY-SIX PERCENT LANDSLIDE!! BTW, isn't that some kind of a record for you guys? Ironic, isn't it, NewGuy, that a member of the 40% of "NO" voters at DAL defends the contract to one of the 86% of "YES" voters at NWA? Now, since I voted it down I do admit I think it is somewhat of a "bad deal"...will you "own up" as reflected by your "yes" vote and admit it is "somewhat" of a "good deal"?....then our rhetoric will be consistent with our actions and we can just switch sides in this argument....and no one will notice!
If some pilots on both sides are pis$ed off, then you know the SLI was done right.
Brilliant! Never heard that line before.
Oh, please, spare me as well FD...
The B-Scale comments were clearly referenced to the idea of a merged DAL/NWA operating with LOA19 for the DL pilots and the then current NWA contract for former NWA pilots. They clearly did not imply that our current NWA contract is a B-scale contract by itself....only that if the merged airline was running both simultaniously it would represent a B-scale operation. I know that you know this as well yet it doesn't score as many rhetoric points to put it that way. I agree with your overall point (if I understand you correctly) that the JPWA is an increase for NWA pilots. I disagree with some NWA folks that think it is a nuetral or small loss contract for us, while at the same time I disagree that it is a windfall for NWA pilots either. I'm getting a 6.5% raise but I lose 1.5X over 80 pay and my medical expenses will go up, even under the Gold plan(MUCH higher deductibles even after the HRA money is factored in....current NWA family ded = $700....DAL Gold Plan = $3000 - $1500 HRA $ = $1500.....more than DOUBLE). Hardly much to get very excited about.
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Hopefully you will be in a category that allows you to greenslip.
Ok......My NWA class was axed. I was one class too late. Got the poolie for a year letter so I'm still building time for the majors in my RJ. I would like to make it to "a" seniority list before I get too pruny. However, the reprieve has allowed time too get my financial house off the fault line, so it hasnt been all bad. Wish I did not burn all my vacation in March though....bicker away I just would like a life ring before next April.
Ok......My NWA class was axed. I was one class too late. Got the poolie for a year letter so I'm still building time for the majors in my RJ.
Keep the faith. We will be operated separately until there is a SOC and that should mean we will need to start classes up between now and then. I've heard rumors that it will be this winter for the summer 09 season and that it will be 100-150 pilots.
It still rumor at this point but the most positive one I've heard in a while. I have a friend in your same class so I've had my ear to the wall for anything news worthy.
Heyas DTW,
Thanks for pointing that out.
Greenslipping versus premium pay is definately a step backwards for the NWA guys.
With the premium pay, ANYTHING you pick up, at any time, above 80 gets you premium pay. Picking up trips designated as Premium in open time gives you a double whammy.
Greenslipping is restricted to the next day's trips, and you basically have to live in base to make it work.
The two are in no way comparable. Considering most categories have been over 80 just about forever now, this represents a signficiant loss. The pay raise compensates for this.
My point is this. The pre-LOA 19 DAL contract was certainly nothing to write home about, and if taken in it's entirety (pay vs QoL), was equivilent to the NWA contract.
The only reason both sides got raises was because of the merger. Had the JPWA NOT been ratified by the DAL guys (which was looking likely), it was probably that an agreement would have been reached with DAL management that would have provided raises to the NWA guys, within the framework of the existing PWA. THAT would have been preferable, since it would have retained the QoL items in our contract.
The NWA guys were provided with a "Hobson's Choice". Take the DAL contract with post LOA rates (more or less) or nothing at all. Had there been a box on the ballot for "NWA PWA +10%", it would have won by a landslide.
So is it an improvement? Yes...slightly. About the same improvement that the DAL guys saw over their original agreement with LOA19.
It's certainly nothing to get excited about.
Nu
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TNPILOT
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Wish I did not burn all my vacation in March though.
I'll second that.
You are getting a 6.5% raise, plus 4% each subsequent year. Others will be getting more. Over the next 4 years you will be getting over an 18.5% raise over what you would have had with your previous contract. Plus a DC increasing to 12% on the amendable date, plus equity, plus 2X pay on green slips, plus a manning formula which equates to between 350-500 additional jobs on NWA aircraft. Plus many other benefits that lead to nearly an 87% yes vote.
It won by a landslide at NWA (86%) with the DALPA negotiated rates in the JCBA.
You had a choice, you could have demanded more or rejected the contract. You made the right choice and were brought up to parity with the Delta pilots.
Someone posted that the most anyone got in a raise was about 12% and that was for the A330. I would think the largest raise would come for the guys that were furloughed. Not only did this contract improve their payrates but after 1 Jan 09 or DCC, they will have their longevity reinstated for their furlough years.
At Delta, years on furlough count toward longevity, not the case at any other airline that I know of, so instead of being on 6th year pay I'm on 9th year pay. So using a NWA A320 FO that had 3 years of furlough, he would go from $84/hr to $90/hr with the current payrates. In other words a 9% payraise just on longevity reinstatement.
At Delta, years on furlough count toward longevity, not the case at any other airline that I know of, so instead of being on 6th year pay I'm on 9th year pay. So using a NWA A320 FO that had 3 years of furlough, he would go from $84/hr to $90/hr with the current payrates. In other words a 9% payraise just on longevity reinstatement.
Heyas FDJ,
And this is where your rhetoric falls apart. In ONLY the pay rates was parity achieved.
The loss of so many other PWA components was a huge step backwards for many.
Is it a net gain or loss? Depends on your perspective. 319/320 drivers got hammered. 757 crews did OK.
I know over at DAL the sun rises and sets by section 3, but that's not true everywhere. Some of us appriciate that there is more to a PWA than pay rates. Somewhere in management's accounting, they attach a cost to each item in the PWA. Pilots do the same, although probably more on a subjective basis.
Sure, there was more money. Deduct what we lost, or will be forced to pay (health insurance), and in quite a few NWA's guys mind, it was an improvement, but a VERY minor one.
Guys voted for a minor improvement. I'd expect them to. No harm there, but certainly no windfall, though.
Nu
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Cobraair75drvr
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lookin4better
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