Nwa Hiring

[FBN0223]

The contract passed. What more needs to be said. I got the first round, General has the second. Cheers!!!!

 

[800Dog]

If some pilots on both sides are pis$ed off, then you know the SLI was done right.

Brilliant! Never heard that line before.

 

[DTW320]

Oh please, spare me.

I was just commenting on all the whining going on prior to the JCBA about the DALPA contract being so lucrative and NALPA pilots being stuck on their self described "B" scale contract. Plenty of revisionism now though.

I'll furnish you the quotes from your own MEC Chairman commenting on the lucrative DALPA contract versus what he described as a B scale NALPA contract if you'd like.

Also, I'd much rather have 777s than 787 orders. The 777s pay more, are a proven production aircraft with firm deliveries scheduled this winter and most importantly they are on the ramp not on a future order book of an aircraft that hasn't flown yet.

Go ahead and comment all you like.

Oh, please, spare me as well FD...

The B-Scale comments were clearly referenced to the idea of a merged DAL/NWA operating with LOA19 for the DL pilots and the then current NWA contract for former NWA pilots. They clearly did not imply that our current NWA contract is a B-scale contract by itself....only that if the merged airline was running both simultaniously it would represent a B-scale operation. I know that you know this as well yet it doesn't score as many rhetoric points to put it that way. I agree with your overall point (if I understand you correctly) that the JPWA is an increase for NWA pilots. I disagree with some NWA folks that think it is a nuetral or small loss contract for us, while at the same time I disagree that it is a windfall for NWA pilots either. I'm getting a 6.5% raise but I lose 1.5X over 80 pay and my medical expenses will go up, even under the Gold plan(MUCH higher deductibles even after the HRA money is factored in....current NWA family ded = $700....DAL Gold Plan = $3000 - $1500 HRA $ = $1500.....more than DOUBLE). Hardly much to get very excited about.

 

[800Dog]

Oh, please, spare me as well FD...

The B-Scale comments were clearly referenced to the idea of a merged DAL/NWA operating with LOA19 for the DL pilots and the then current NWA contract for former NWA pilots. They clearly did not imply that our current NWA contract is a B-scale contract by itself....only that if the merged airline was running both simultaniously it would represent a B-scale operation. I know that you know this as well yet it doesn't score as many rhetoric points to put it that way. I agree with your overall point (if I understand you correctly) that the JPWA is an increase for NWA pilots. I disagree with some NWA folks that think it is a nuetral or small loss contract for us, while at the same time I disagree that it is a windfall for NWA pilots either. I'm getting a 6.5% raise but I lose 1.5X over 80 pay and my medical expenses will go up, even under the Gold plan(MUCH higher deductibles even after the HRA money is factored in....current NWA family ded = $700....DAL Gold Plan = $3000 - $1500 HRA $ = $1500.....more than DOUBLE). Hardly much to get very excited about.

Hopefully you will be in a category that allows you to greenslip.

 

[imlars]

Ok......My NWA class was axed. I was one class too late. Got the poolie for a year letter so I'm still building time for the majors in my RJ. I would like to make it to "a" seniority list before I get too pruny. However, the reprieve has allowed time too get my financial house off the fault line, so it hasnt been all bad. Wish I did not burn all my vacation in March though....bicker away I just would like a life ring before next April.

 

[clippyrip]

Ok......My NWA class was axed. I was one class too late. Got the poolie for a year letter so I'm still building time for the majors in my RJ.

Keep the faith. We will be operated separately until there is a SOC and that should mean we will need to start classes up between now and then. I've heard rumors that it will be this winter for the summer 09 season and that it will be 100-150 pilots.

It still rumor at this point but the most positive one I've heard in a while. I have a friend in your same class so I've had my ear to the wall for anything news worthy.

 

[NuGuy]

Oh, please, spare me as well FD...

The B-Scale comments were clearly referenced to the idea of a merged DAL/NWA operating with LOA19 for the DL pilots and the then current NWA contract for former NWA pilots. They clearly did not imply that our current NWA contract is a B-scale contract by itself....only that if the merged airline was running both simultaniously it would represent a B-scale operation. I know that you know this as well yet it doesn't score as many rhetoric points to put it that way. I agree with your overall point (if I understand you correctly) that the JPWA is an increase for NWA pilots. I disagree with some NWA folks that think it is a nuetral or small loss contract for us, while at the same time I disagree that it is a windfall for NWA pilots either. I'm getting a 6.5% raise but I lose 1.5X over 80 pay and my medical expenses will go up, even under the Gold plan(MUCH higher deductibles even after the HRA money is factored in....current NWA family ded = $700....DAL Gold Plan = $3000 - $1500 HRA $ = $1500.....more than DOUBLE). Hardly much to get very excited about.

Heyas DTW,

Thanks for pointing that out.

Greenslipping versus premium pay is definately a step backwards for the NWA guys.

With the premium pay, ANYTHING you pick up, at any time, above 80 gets you premium pay. Picking up trips designated as Premium in open time gives you a double whammy.

Greenslipping is restricted to the next day's trips, and you basically have to live in base to make it work.

The two are in no way comparable. Considering most categories have been over 80 just about forever now, this represents a signficiant loss. The pay raise compensates for this.

My point is this. The pre-LOA 19 DAL contract was certainly nothing to write home about, and if taken in it's entirety (pay vs QoL), was equivilent to the NWA contract.

The only reason both sides got raises was because of the merger. Had the JPWA NOT been ratified by the DAL guys (which was looking likely), it was probably that an agreement would have been reached with DAL management that would have provided raises to the NWA guys, within the framework of the existing PWA. THAT would have been preferable, since it would have retained the QoL items in our contract.

The NWA guys were provided with a "Hobson's Choice". Take the DAL contract with post LOA rates (more or less) or nothing at all. Had there been a box on the ballot for "NWA PWA +10%", it would have won by a landslide.

So is it an improvement? Yes...slightly. About the same improvement that the DAL guys saw over their original agreement with LOA19.

It's certainly nothing to get excited about.

Nu

 

[TNPILOT]

Wish I did not burn all my vacation in March though.

I'll second that.

 

[FDJ2]

Oh, please, spare me as well FD...

The B-Scale comments were clearly referenced to the idea of a merged DAL/NWA operating with LOA19 for the DL pilots and the then current NWA contract for former NWA pilots. They clearly did not imply that our current NWA contract is a B-scale contract by itself....only that if the merged airline was running both simultaniously it would represent a B-scale operation.

Of course it would have been a "b" scale. That's why we worked together to get parity. It's a net plus for NWA pilots, more than many are willing to admit for rhetorical reasons.

I know that you know this as well yet it doesn't score as many rhetoric points to put it that way.

Rhetoric points? I wasn't the one claiming this wasn't a net positive for the NWA pilots, a much larger net positive then many seem willing to admit, since it flies in the face of their rhetoric. When compared to the DALPA contract, absent a joint contract with parity, NALPA's rhetoric was that NWA pilots would have a "B" scale contract. That's not my rhetoric, that's NALPA's.

I agree with your overall point (if I understand you correctly) that the JPWA is an increase for NWA pilots. I disagree with some NWA folks that think it is a nuetral or small loss contract for us, while at the same time I disagree that it is a windfall for NWA pilots either. I'm getting a 6.5% raise but I lose 1.5X over 80 pay and my medical expenses will go up, even under the Gold plan(MUCH higher deductibles even after the HRA money is factored in....current NWA family ded = $700....DAL Gold Plan = $3000 - $1500 HRA $ = $1500.....more than DOUBLE). Hardly much to get very excited about.

You are getting a 6.5% raise, plus 4% each subsequent year. Others will be getting more. Over the next 4 years you will be getting over an 18.5% raise over what you would have had with your previous contract. Plus a DC increasing to 12% on the amendable date, plus equity, plus 2X pay on green slips, plus a manning formula which equates to between 350-500 additional jobs on NWA aircraft. Plus many other benefits that lead to nearly an 87% yes vote.

 

[FDJ2]

The NWA guys were provided with a "Hobson's Choice". Take the DAL contract with post LOA rates (more or less) or nothing at all. Had there been a box on the ballot for "NWA PWA +10%", it would have won by a landslide.
Nu

It won by a landslide at NWA (86%) with the DALPA negotiated rates in the JCBA.

You had a choice, you could have demanded more or rejected the contract. You made the right choice and were brought up to parity with the Delta pilots.

 

[DAL737FO]

Someone posted that the most anyone got in a raise was about 12% and that was for the A330. I would think the largest raise would come for the guys that were furloughed. Not only did this contract improve their payrates but after 1 Jan 09 or DCC, they will have their longevity reinstated for their furlough years.

At Delta, years on furlough count toward longevity, not the case at any other airline that I know of, so instead of being on 6th year pay I'm on 9th year pay. So using a NWA A320 FO that had 3 years of furlough, he would go from $84/hr to $90/hr with the current payrates. In other words a 9% payraise just on longevity reinstatement.

 

[NuGuy]

It won by a landslide at NWA (86%) with the DALPA negotiated rates in the JCBA.

You had a choice, you could have demanded more or rejected the contract. You made the right choice and were brought up to parity with the Delta pilots.

Heyas FDJ,

And this is where your rhetoric falls apart. In ONLY the pay rates was parity achieved.

The loss of so many other PWA components was a huge step backwards for many.

Is it a net gain or loss? Depends on your perspective. 319/320 drivers got hammered. 757 crews did OK.

I know over at DAL the sun rises and sets by section 3, but that's not true everywhere. Some of us appriciate that there is more to a PWA than pay rates. Somewhere in management's accounting, they attach a cost to each item in the PWA. Pilots do the same, although probably more on a subjective basis.

Sure, there was more money. Deduct what we lost, or will be forced to pay (health insurance), and in quite a few NWA's guys mind, it was an improvement, but a VERY minor one.

Guys voted for a minor improvement. I'd expect them to. No harm there, but certainly no windfall, though.

Nu

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Heyas Nu,

Did you mean section 3?

Heyas FDJ,

And this is where your rhetoric falls apart. In ONLY the pay rates was parity achieved.

The loss of so many other PWA components was a huge step backwards for many.

Is it a net gain or loss? Depends on your perspective. 319/320 drivers got hammered. 757 crews did OK.

I know over at DAL the sun rises and sets by section 2, but that's not true everywhere. Some of us appriciate that there is more to a PWA than pay rates. Somewhere in managements accounting, they attach a cost to each item in the PWA. Pilots do the same, although probably more on a subjective basis.

Sure, there was more money. Deduct what we lost, or will be forced to pay (health insurance), and in quite a few NWA's guys mind, it was an improvement, but a VERY minor one.

Guys voted for a minor improvement. I'd expect them to. No harm there, but certainly no windfall, though.

Nu

 

[lookin4better]

What is this thread about again?

With the passage of this joint agreement .....NWA will be short on staffing ( due to manning requirements in the contract ) correct? A need to hire? Will both carriers hire to meet these needs? or just Delta?

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas Nu,

Did you mean section 3?

Ahh, you beat me to it!

Nu