Airtran Scheduling cost company millions

[scarlet]

Airtran needs to look at Sch. Department, before they ask anyone for paycut. New Revenue=Airtran

Pilots removed from orginial trips to cover what reserves should do.

My Captain, taken off from 8 legs to go do four legs, with one DH and then a reserve DH to my city to do 8 legs and very high time 2 day. My cpt. pay protected for the whole trip, and he ends up in ATL for layover and gets hotel.

This stuff is happening EVERY DAY !!!

 

[Eagle757shark]

Airtran needs to look at Sch. Department, before they ask anyone for paycut. New Revenue=Airtran

Pilots removed from orginial trips to cover what reserves should do.

My Captain, taken off from 8 legs to go do four legs, with one DH and then a reserve DH to my city to do 8 legs and very high time 2 day. My cpt. pay protected for the whole trip, and he ends up in ATL for layover and gets hotel.

This stuff is happening EVERY DAY !!!

"You are just a pilot! You don't see the big picture. You should just focus on what you are doing in the cockpit. Let us take care of the company, we know what's going on, you don't! Do your JOB!"
I imagine every pilot who reads this has heard this in some form. It is sad because the NPA System Schedule Committee (SSC) should be auditing scheduling every month. They should be getting information on the number of down-line drafts and junior assignments and re-assignments each month. They should be auditing Deadheads as well. They should be doing all of this to make sure our schedules are as efficient as possible therefore saving the company money. The NPA and their committees need to learn that when they address the company put it in a dollar figure and how much it is costing the company or saving the company in dollars! That is the only thing any executive will understand. They don't give two cents about your quality of life or how many days you have off or all the other things we squawk about. We as pilots need to stop thinking like blue collar labor and start talking dollars and cents and use that to win our arguements! If you can show the CEO how scheduling is costing the company millions of dollars and present it to him in writing with hard facts, perhaps some things can be changed. I know if I were a shareholder and someone was presenting to the CEO how one department was costing the company millions of dollars because of incompetence, I'd sure want to know how he was going to fix it. Unions in the 21st century have to change the way they approach these people. Just a thought!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Until airlines start to invest $$ in qualified people that have some intelligence AND desire in scheduling departments, they will ALWAYS waste $$ and flight crew time! Don't bother complaining about it here though since every one of us experiences the same at our own airlines...just makes you sound like a whiner. Of course, if you do the aformentioned to the CEO then I would listen to your complaint anytime.

 

[clr4theapch]

Having worked in Airtrans SOC in a past life, and used all of there systems, I would say to any pilots out there to go spend a day in the SOC and see how scheduling and dispatch has to juggle schedules, aircraft to accomodate call in's, broke planes, late planes, diversions etc... thoses people in there do a remarkable job keeping things moving in light of all that happens everyday..
I am not saying they are perfect, not saying mistakes happen, but considering it takes a lot of good judgement from many sources to make the daily adjustments, it's pretty remarkable..

Once you do that, you will gain a different perspective to guage your opinions and provide ideas for improvements to those that will listen.. People like Sonny have been in the business for many years and his top priority it to do it safe and do it as cheap as possible... JMHO

 

[DonVerita]

Having worked in Airtrans SOC in a past life, and used all of there systems, I would say to any pilots out there to go spend a day in the SOC and see how scheduling and dispatch has to juggle schedules, aircraft to accomodate call in's, broke planes, late planes, diversions etc... thoses people in there do a remarkable job keeping things moving in light of all that happens everyday..
I am not saying they are perfect, not saying mistakes happen, but considering it takes a lot of good judgement from many sources to make the daily adjustments, it's pretty remarkable..

Once you do that, you will gain a different perspective to guage your opinions and provide ideas for improvements to those that will listen.. People like Sonny have been in the business for many years and his top priority it to do it safe and do it as cheap as possible... JMHO

I don't think the author is ranting on the individual employees in SOC, Dispatch, Scheduling or whatever. Rather, he is saying that there has to be a BETTER way to do the job they are doing. There is. Spend the money to get better software, computers, training or whatever it takes. In addition, he is dead on target with the auditing statement.

You can not fix what you can not measure. Auditing holds people accountable.

 

[clr4theapch]

I agree..

Until airlines start to invest $$ in qualified people that have some intelligence AND desire in scheduling departments, they will ALWAYS waste $$ and flight crew time! Don't bother complaining about it here though since every one of us experiences the same at our own airlines...just makes you sound like a whiner. Of course, if you do the aformentioned to the CEO then I would listen to your complaint anytime.

I was probably thinking about this posters comment more than the thread starter..however, I do agree with you when it come to software upgrades etc.. I would think, that these options are obvious fixes, but maybe I am wrong with Airtran.. never the less, I think every SOC in the US fleet attempts to do the very best they can with the tools they are given to use..

As I use to jumpseat everytime I was allowed to get a feel for the crews days, I still would like to see the crews drop in for a day in the life at their SOC..

 

[Broke in CVG]

Here is a solution.... maybe scheduling should at least "consider" a pilot's suggestion before saying.. "nope, not going to do it... because I said so."

They have to keep tract of thousand's of pilots. We keep track of one or maybe two (if you are stalking someone).

One of the problems is the time crunch. I have found, that maybe, just maybe if you calmly, politely explain your suggestion and then give them enough time to check it out and call you back later that they may go for it.

"Hey, I am DH to XYZ then flying to ABC and then DH to XXX while the orginal CA is DH in the back. I understand that you are DH the CA so he doesn't 30/7, but wouldn't it make more sense to do this.... (DH to ABC then fly back to XXX) so I only have to do one DH instead of two?

Give them about an hour to figure it out.

Then they will still say No. BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY! The plan was already put into effect because someone else figured it out and they DON'T WANT TO BOTHER even if it is more efficient and makes their job easier in the long run having another reserve around instead of DH all over the country.

LAZY, LAZY, LAZY. - Even when someone else does the thinking for them. It's already done, why should I change it? I have other things to do - like watch reruns of Jerry Springer.

 

[fletch717]

I was in mem on a ground stop. CS called me to tell me they were re crewing my atl/clt turn, and I would just fly my ron to BMI later. when I arrived in ATL I was getting off the plane I asked the crew where they were going. They replied CLT, It was My turn they were taking! I just laughed and shook my head. Let my clarify, I laughed after I checked to make sure I was pay protected.

I have many stories like this, and I'm just one person. 1 4hour pay protection for 1 capt $500.00
If it only happens once a day, thats 182,500 per yr

 

[vortilon-x]

Sorry...

I feel sorry for you guys, but I was never paid by the hour so far. Guess was lucky. Downside is though that when you work hard you do not see extra pennies either...But at least this way you have a stable income.

 

[clr4theapch]

Broken in CVG.. your right as well

Again Your right.. as a dispatcher, I am more than willing to listen to my crews suggestions and discuss alternative and changes.. In general, scheulers at the regional level are just learning and being told to do it a cerain way.. they become uncomfortable working outside the box.. I have seen a noticable difference at more, how shall I state it, advanced operations like Airtran and others, where the schedulers are willing to and do work with crews if they can.. what I have seen however is that the days work has degraded to a point where everyone is playing catch-up or repairing the schedule to midigate negitive waterfall effects to the schedule, looking days in advance of that moment.. so what Might seem obvoius to you at the time, is not something that can be fixed..

I would suggest to speak to the scheduling supervisor if you have a situation that makes sence to you as a money and time savings issue and see it that person can see if it works with the days game plan... Everyone needs to be heard, but everyone also needs to understand what might be going on on the other end of the phone....

 

[fletch717]

I stoped trying to help. I'm tired of being treated with disrespect, If they want those people to run the show, fine by me. I usually make more money that way with less stress.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

where the schedulers are willing to and do work with crews if they can..

Doesn't happen here.

Sorry, the benefit of the doubt is long gone. When pilots are reported to the CP's office for not answering their phones, and the reason they aren't is that they are HOLDING over a fix, wasting gas for gate congestion, then crew scheduling has no clue, period.

 

[Networ-King]

This kind of stuff happens at every airline and or company. Some that I have worked for were very receptive to the new ideas and some not so much. Here at big brown contingency pretty much runs everything and these freaking people don't have ANYONE to answer to....... so they do as they wish.

When I first started here, contingency launched a 727 hot crew to DSM to take a part for ops over there.... when I saw one of the top contingency guys, aka "the circle of geniuses" I asked how much a launch like that costs the company and he said roughly around 20K, but he said it was worth it to save the sort and packages. I asked him then why didn't he just launch a lear for 3K and save 17K? I will never forget what came out of his mouth next.....
"Well, if I launch a lear then that 3K would come out of contingencies budget, but if I launch the 727 hot, that comes out of flight ops budget".

You could imaging the look on my face when I figured out that he was fu(king serious...... how can you argue with someone that is so fu(ked up in the head like that and in such a position of power? The answer is... you don't...

This kind of crap happens all the time here and the stories just get worse and worse. We could have easily made over a billion dollars for last quarter if each department didn't have "their" budgets and everybody started to think about the bottom brown dollar.

Someone said it best on here..... go do your job, make more money for yourself by doing it their way, and then go home.

They don't want to listen to suggestions.... WE DON'T SEE THE BIG PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and for the dispatcher on here.... I did spend time with scheduling more than once and it is challenging at times, but when you don't see the best answer and a pilot... you know the guy on YOUR team.... gives you a better way of doing it... then just suck it up and say " that's a darn good idea, thanks for the help". The old YOU DON'T SEE THE BIG PICTURE is way over played and the lazy way out.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I stoped trying to help. I'm tired of being treated with disrespect, If they want those people to run the show, fine by me. I usually make more money that way with less stress.

A-Fukcin-men.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Speaking of reducing stress, don't give sched your cell number. I had mine removed from their list years ago. Unplug your hotel room phone upon arrival and enjoy a quiet, stress free layover.

Once they realize they don't have a way of contacting you, they stop trying. Try it, you'll see.

 

[RJones]

Most likely the schedulers are being told how to schedule crews with a computer program (crew sodomizer) which as I understand will run a few solutions in which the scheduler can choose from. The final result will screw you and about 30 other pilots. When you ask em about why they are doing it that way they shut you down and tell you to suck-it-up and fly.

What really upsets me is when you get re-routed in a pilot base... ah, dah ... isn't this a pilot base. Bottom line is it saves the company money but you Joe pilot make little for the grief.

RJ

 

[clr4theapch]

and for the dispatcher on here.... I did spend time with scheduling more than once and it is challenging at times, but when you don't see the best answer and a pilot... you know the guy on YOUR team.... gives you a better way of doing it... then just suck it up and say " that's a darn good idea, thanks for the help". The old YOU DON'T SEE THE BIG PICTURE is way over played and the lazy way out.

Well not everyone has a great attitude and is glad to be working doing what they ("like, love") I happen to be a pilot and dispatcher, and take this stuff in stride, it is my job discription, I work with my crews every day and we always work things out.. I have management breathing down my back about not tankering fuel, I aire on the side of safety and my pilots requests without fail.. but I would not be a scheduler for any amount of money.. I wish I had the time to work with the schedulers of my crews to help them out of thses kind of issues, but the "system" does not provide for such...

Something has to be done about the way things are done, and the poor attitudes it creates.. I dont have the answers, only to communicate and ask for someone that cares on the other end.. Nicely I might add so you can get the attention deserved..

And King: at least you dont have passengers to worry about.. boxes dont talk back.... though I am sure big brown could do things better.. I did read recently that you guys saved $3million in gas just by making right turns!!.. maybe I could flight plan all my guys to only make left hand turns and save my company mo-money.. Smile be happy... its alot worse for many in our profession..

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Speaking of reducing stress, don't give sched your cell number. I had mine removed from their list years ago. Unplug your hotel room phone upon arrival and enjoy a quiet, stress free layover.

So chuck/einstein/lawman/sky fly, and the countless other names you've used. Pretty funny you say this since you wrote right here that you don't even work at Air Tran.

Once they realize they don't have a way of contacting you, they stop trying. Try it, you'll see.

Is that how they do it at Midwest? I'm so sorry to hear of your impending furlough.
Don't you get tired of spending the $10 on new accounts? It must get expensive on that midwest salary, plus the impending 40% paycut.

 

[Networ-King]

I did read recently that you guys saved $3million in gas just by making right turns!!.. maybe I could flight plan all my guys to only make left hand turns and save my company mo-money..

D A M N IT......

Thats why my DSM leg freaking took over 5 hours..... good thing I'm just a freight dog now.....

And don't worry about me smiling..... I laugh at their fu(k ups every time I cash my check. Good luck over there at AAI....

 

[Abernathy]

There are times when I have considered the possibility that our scheduling department was actually recruited from a special ed class with the best ones already picked out. That also goes for crew planning.