Frontier secures DIP!

[greenbayfan]

quote from greenbayfan:

"I didn't say I did, but it's basic math to see that even with this financing you can't last more than 8 months."


It may be basic math but it's not basic financial accounting and that's where your projections are wholly and completely wrong.

Ok hotshot, then please explain to me how you think Frontier can survive with an operating loss of $15m a month.....this oughta be good!

 

[Cornelius]

So you think a company loses the same amount every month while they are going through every cost cutting strategy out there???? Why don't we all wait and see if the huge changes we have been going though recently will pan out before you act like your Warren Buffet or something.

 

[Newf Dog]

"Ok hotshot, then please explain to me how you think Frontier can survive with an operating loss of $15m a month.....this oughta be good!"


Um....first off...we will not continue to have an operating loss of $15m per month. As I have contemplated how to explain this to you in the simplest of terms it occurs to me that your comments, along with the general tone of your posts, indicate to me that a) you still won't get it and 2) you don't care to "get it." That's all good though. If you wish to claim victory go for it.

Rather than spell it out for you I'll just quote stratus72:

"I know we aren't out of the woods, but I'm quite confident that our management and the investment firm knows a litte more than you do."

Either way only time will tell.

 

[greenbayfan]

"Ok hotshot, then please explain to me how you think Frontier can survive with an operating loss of $15m a month.....this oughta be good!"


Um....first off...we will not continue to have an operating loss of $15m per month. As I have contemplated how to explain this to you in the simplest of terms it occurs to me that your comments, along with the general tone of your posts, indicate to me that a) you still won't get it and 2) you don't care to "get it." That's all good though. If you wish to claim victory go for it.

Rather than spell it out for you I'll just quote stratus72:

"I know we aren't out of the woods, but I'm quite confident that our management and the investment firm knows a litte more than you do."

Either way only time will tell.

In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.......

 

[jetalc]

In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.......

Don't feed the troll. This guy is clearly out of touch and just wants to post flamebait. No sense in getting upset about this type of tool. His Mommy obviously ignored him as a child.

 

[Newf Dog]

"In other words, you don't know what you are talking about......."

"Don't feed the troll. This guy is clearly out of touch and just wants to post flamebait. No sense in getting upset about this type of tool. His Mommy obviously ignored him as a child."

jetalc,

I agree which is why it's not worth it. In fairness to greenbayfan it does look like a cop-out. However, my interests (and yours) are more about the survivsl of F9 and keeping our jobs. I don't care about some ridiculus debate on FI which I foolishly allowed myself to be sucked into. If greenbayfan chooses to think I have no idea what I'm talking about that's fine by me.

I answered his question in generic form on another post. I started to post a lengthy financial analysis but I realized it was stupid (feeding the troll) and more about my ego, although it's pretty obvious from his question he's out of his league. Besides most guys here don't have a Wharton education let alone an accounting degree. It's not relevant.

We'll just let time show us what happens. More interesting for us is the terms of the DIP and how it relates to the nature of F9 post BK. As you know this will spur all manner of new rumors and cockpit conversation as to whether we will be a privately held company or merged with another carrier.

Personally I hope we survive in our present form. I like our brand and I love our company. I'm optimistic for the future if we can survive the winter and oil comes down.

 

[SennaP1]

Good Luck Frontier.

What I've heard is that you have a great product.

 

[StaySeated]

To quote Harvey Keitel, "lets not start sucking each others d1cks just yet"...

While this is better news then Menke coming out and saying he is turning out the lights, F9 doesn't have the money in their hand yet.

Has anyone stopped to think about what those "certain other conditions" might be. If this gets past the BK court, the company is going to come a 'knocking" for some more concessions. I can already here the speech, "the first pay cut was to get them interested, now we need xxx% to close the deal". Make no doubt about it, there will be another round. I already feel like I gave enough. How about you?

 

[Talon757]

I concur with Senna, gentlemen. Before I escaped being based in Indy I often jumpseated on F9 to get home and you were without fail a class act. Now that ATA has escaped from being my employer I hope to be in a position soon to ride with you folks once more. You can tell a lot about an outfit by observing the attitude of those who work there and I could tell that F9 was a good place to be. Congrats on the good news and may it work to your good fortune.

 

[pipejockey]

I know the Frontier people will despise me for this but let me ask this. Looking at all this from the perspective of someone who needs this industry to survive for the next 25-30 years, is this news about Frontier a good thing? Other carriers are laying off 1000's to reduce capacity so fares can be raised to sustainable levels, yet we are going to have another carrier go into bankruptcy, gut contracts, wipe out debt, just to stay in business and do it all over again in a few years.

Look, if my company were to go bankrupt, then they don't deserve to exist. Yes, even if it meant I were on the street. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, I can do something else. Too many weak carriers are remaining alive due to our bankruptcy laws. But I guess question remains, is the industry as a whole better off for those who remain and those who depend upon it for their living, when carriers continue to go in and out of bankruptcy? At the very least, we should have some laws that limit a company to 1 bankruptcy. If we did, USAir would no longer be around.

 

[Newf Dog]

"Has anyone stopped to think about what those "certain other conditions" might be. If this gets past the BK court, the company is going to come a 'knocking" for some more concessions."

You bet they are....and that's the $75 million question. This DIP deal could significantly alter F9. SM already stated that the makeup of the BOD will change. Holding onto our contract will be paramount. The "good will" of the employee groups can only go so far even amongst the thirstiest of Kool-Aid drinkers.

 

[fam62c]

Good luck to all at Frontier, I hope you make it. The only downside I see here is that if you come out the other side a private equity company will own 79.9% of you. Ask the folks at Midwest what it's like to be owned by a private equity shop, these people are ruthless. The "conditions" to get the money may prove to be draconian.

 

[USMC319]

Yes, even if it meant I were on the street.quote]

Pipejockey,

Who do you think you are fooling? Maybe yourself, but don't try to sell that BS to the rest of us.

If you think you should be the decider of the surviving carriers, and recommend that all employees of such carriers fall on their swords so that you can enjoy the rest of your...what 25 to 30 years was it? Maybe we ought to make that retroactive and have all the carriers that were in bankruptcy in the past just go away, afterall according to your logic they are the ones that drug the industry into its current state. Maybe all the pilots from any carrier that used the bankruptcy proccess should just shut quit for your career's sake. BTW, why would you want to take some of the most quality capacity out of the industry by recommending F9 go away. Why don't you recommend capacity from the crappy service carriers go away instead...or whould that adversely affect you?

 

[pipejockey]

I already said, if it were my carrier so be it!! Any of us who do this for a living should be able to be successful elsewhere, as I will be. And as far as deciding who survives and who doesn't, shouldn't the ability to make enough money to be a going concern dictate that? If a company falls into bankruptcy then obviously they are not successful enough to survive. And sure, lets not limit it to 2 bankruptcy, lets eliminate all this bankruptcy protection period!!! I'm all for that. It's high time prices are charged for a service or product that at least covers costs, these fares have got to stop!!

Half of the flights I operate have standbys. Some days the standbys run up to 100 if there is just 1 cancellation due to weather and the ATC incompetence that is surely to follow. Yet our fearless leaders continue to pi** on our legs and tell us it's raining, saying they just cannot raise fares. I call bullsh*t!!!

 

[Toobdrvr]

so who do you work for....

 

[FlyWolf]

Great news guys, all the best, I really hope you make it. Frontier is a class act airline and a group of pilots.

 

[Golden Falcon]

He's a cheese-head give him a break

 

[armani]

This is great news to hear F9 has a great product along w/ many of my Laker buddies working there. I wish you giys the best.

 

[PinnacleDude]

Congratulations to the Frontier folks on the DIP. Someone I know from SWA asked me to say thanks to the F9 guys for the ride to GEG the other night. He also said the word on Denton Drive in DAL is that SWA management thinks F9 will be around. Take it FWIW.

For everyone else trashing on the F9 guys, why rain on their good news? It it doesn't turn out it will become obvious enough and we will read about it in USA Today. Until then we are all pilots and lets hope for the best.

 

[McNugget]

They need RAH 170s to survive.

Was a great product for a great company