AirTran Pilots Fired!!!!!!!

[carl p]

The 177 don't need recall rights. I don't think a recall will ever happen anyways. Unfortunately, this is probably the beginning of the end for the torch jet.

Grow up. Families were destroyed, lives were lost and you make stupid jokes.

 

[Uppercrust]

Not cool to refer to Airtran as Torchjet. Although, don't hesistate to use the Valuejet phrase or even Criter. Those two are safe and funny. Referencing the Everglade crash is not cool.

Back on topic, those 177 individuals fired will probably move on to greener pastures as a result of this and in some ways should consider themselves lucky. Heck, it might even be a resume booster to be fired by Valuejet.:laugh: :laugh:

I do beg to ask one question, why did you guys have an agreement like you do with the Training Center guys getting forloughed? What a stupid rule for both parties and why can't you guys compromise on it so the 177 can be forloughed instead of fired?

Good luck to everyone at Valuejet, even Ty Boy.:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

*sigh* Is it really that hard to read the entire thread? This has been covered about half a dozen times...

I do beg to ask one question, why did you guys have an agreement like you do with the Training Center guys getting forloughed? What a stupid rule for both parties and why can't you guys compromise on it so the 177 can be forloughed instead of fired?

Again, for those who are evidently learning-challenged:

1. The whole point of having retired NSL instructors in the training department is that they needed qualified people to instruct and didn't have enough pilots available to both teach AND fly the line. It was designed to be a TEMPORARY fix to a problem.

2. The point of making the rule to remove them wasn't "stupid", it was specifically to allow pilots to go back to those positions if there were a surplus of pilots, thus avoiding or mitigating the number of furloughs from line pilots required. Those positions WERE line pilots positions, were temporarily allowed to be outsourced to retirees, with the understanding that line pilots would go back instead of furloughing them.

3. You don't negotiate with terrorists. The company is using terrorist tactics by holding a group "hostage" for something they want in the contract. We give in, they do it again. And again. And again.

Until an LOA is drafted that takes away their ability to use probationary pilot firings as a negotiating tool, gives a timeline to return regular line pilots to the training department as it SHOULD be, and puts the REQUIREMENT for the company to offer Leaves of Absence and Early Retirements, without penalty, BEFORE they furlough, in order to reduce the number of pilots they need to furlough, NOTHING should be signed.

Yes, it's unfortunate for the bottom 177. I, more than anyone, understand what it's like to fight an immoral and unethical management team. But place the blame where it belongs: square on the head of management, in refusing to give basic protections which are in EVERYONE'S best interest... that is, of course, unless the company likes having a "gun" to point to the head of the pilot group every time they need a contract concession; then it's no longer in "everone's" best interest to find a solution to this problem, just the pilots.

 

[pilotpm]

Back on topic, those 177 individuals fired will probably move on to greener pastures as a result of this and in some ways should consider themselves lucky. Heck, it might even be a resume booster to be fired by Valuejet.:laugh: :laugh:

Sorry my friend but as an ex ATAer STILL looking for work, them pastures are pretty bare and brown right now.

 

[plunger]

The company should at least give these guys the option of turning a letter of resignation. What a bunch of crap.

 

[ReverseSensing]

The company should at least give these guys the option of turning a letter of resignation. What a bunch of crap.

That might be helpful if they were being terminated for cause, but they're not, so I really don't think resignation versus termination will matter to future employers. Besides, if you resign, you can rarely collect unemployment benefits.

I agree that what Airtran management is doing is despicable.

 

[Jetjockey]

Is this really going to happen? From the outside, it looks like a huge management threat. I'd bet 177 pilots, a union with the right lawyers, and a class action lawsuit (wrongful terminations) will get everyone their jobs back.

Good luck to all involved.

 

[timmay]

The company should at least give these guys the option of turning a letter of resignation. What a bunch of crap.

Why would anyone want to do that? If you quit you have no right to unemployment benefits. By getting terminated at least they can milk some money out of the company.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Training classes should be fun!

I'd like to be a fly on the wall during training classes and/or the sim now til September.
Like to see how some of these old "scabbie scabbers" handle themselves with pilots staying or better yet, pilots having the letter to leave.
I'd make life rough for them. Complain every time the instructor does something out of the ROE for training. File complaints using words of hostile work environment if one yells or even raises their voice. This is where the ladies of the group really have a hand up on Dept. of Labor.

 

[meanstreak]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall during training classes and/or the sim now til September.
Like to see how some of these old "scabbie scabbers" handle themselves with pilots staying or better yet, pilots having the letter to leave.
I'd make life rough for them. Complain every time the instructor does something out of the ROE for training. File complaints using words of hostile work environment if one yells or even raises their voice. This is where the ladies of the group really have a hand up on Dept. of Labor.

I know it sucks being threatened by management about being fired vs furloughed. We all know that. Lets just see what happens with negotiations. I seriously doubt any instructors are going to start screwing with guys. I've been on both planes and have met most instructors in the training department and most of them are stand up guys just trying to make a living.

Calling these guys names on a message board is pretty childishly. I actually don't mind checkrides with some of the 737 instructors, it's no BS or tricks and your done in a couple hours instead of 4. I've heard of some guys who try to throw tricks at you but it's far and few between.

 

[Max Powers]

I know it sucks being threatened by management about being fired vs furloughed. We all know that. Lets just see what happens with negotiations. I seriously doubt any instructors are going to start screwing with guys. I've been on both planes and have met most instructors in the training department and most of them are stand up guys just trying to make a living.

Calling these guys names on a message board is pretty childishly. I actually don't mind checkrides with some of the 737 instructors, it's no BS or tricks and your done in a couple hours instead of 4. I've heard of some guys who try to throw tricks at you but it's far and few between.

No meanstreak your right, however!!!!! Having made it through training unscathed, as it were, the level of training I received was sub-par at best. The highlight was being yelled at when I turned the overhead light on or for putting my Plate on the wheel in front of me. The next day I would be yelled at for NOT putting the overhead light on and NOT putting the plate on the control wheel. I could go on. They need to work some sort of compromise through but the Non-seniority pilots need to leave PRIOR to Seniority pilots.
NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[scarlet]

Every pilot has the right to ask for a line pilot in the sim...exercise that right!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Every pilot has the right to ask for a line pilot in the sim...exercise that right!!!!

I've heard this before, but haven't found it in the CBA. Can you cite a specific section? The only thing I can find is the ability to refuse a specific examiner, but training scheduling interprets that to be only one examiner that you can refuse, not a whole group of them. She'll only let you refuse one guy.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

So let me get this straight. Management is asking captains for a 11% cut and have the guts defending this by saying they took a 15% cut themselves ???

I am sure they didn't mention their 30% pay raise per jan 1st of this year as well in that letter....

Good look to you guys. Great bunch of people, most of you, down there in the ATL.

 

[Clyde Frog]

So let me get this straight. Management is asking captains for a 11% cut and have the guts defending this by saying they took a 15% cut themselves ???

I am sure they didn't mention their 30% pay raise per jan 1st of this year as well in that letter....

.

They're asking for the pay cut while threatening to fire all the probationary guys, unbelievable.