Leave Fortune 100 for NJA?

[CA1900]

NO WAY!!!!
Just look at the faces on the frac guys in the hotel vans after a 12 hr five leg day....

Those aren't a regular event. More typical is 2-3 legs, and one or two of those is a <45 minute empty leg to reposition the plane.

It isn't for everyone, but it isn't the nightmare that's being painted by a couple of the guys here. Indeed, there are a lot of perks that you won't find at a corporate job, and that certainly offsets some of the negatives.

Here's a big one: my wife and I have decided we want to move across the country. With NJA, I go online and give 30 days' notice of what airport I want to fly out of. That's it -- I'm now based there. Were I in a typical corporate job, I'd be finding a new one, because the job is locked to a location.

Another one: a NJA guy is never called on his day off to cover a trip. When he's off, he's off, period. Not being on call helps me look so young. The 20-hour overnight in Cabo the other day didn't hurt either.

 

[tracearabians]

We have an option for a flexible schedule, which has no set days off, but has a maximum tour of 5 days and pays 10% more money (for 2 fewer workdays per year). I'm on it now, and I like it. It's limited to 10% of pilots (in each seat in each fleet). I may go back to the 7/7 down the road, as I like being able to make plans, but I'm in no hurry.

As for FlyingPieceOfSt's friends who look way older than they are, I don't know what to tell ya. I know a whole lot more NJA guys than he does, and none of them look older than they are. He must hang out with heavy drinkers.

I thought you had to be a heavy drinker just to be in this business !!?

 

[CA1900]

I thought you had to be a heavy drinker just to be in this business !!?

:laugh:

So true... :beer:

 

[Buckeye]

So Coporate guys how hard is it to say no? What backing do you have? Don't tell me "We have company SOP's and policies" Yeah great but if the boss wants to go, and there are no 91 duty times what do you do? I do realize that there are many upstanding corp outfits out there, but just like scumbag 135 there are some scumbag 91 outfits.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

So Coporate guys how hard is it to say no? What backing do you have? Don't tell me "We have company SOP's and policies" Yeah great but if the boss wants to go, and there are no 91 duty times what do you do? I do realize that there are many upstanding corp outfits out there, but just like scumbag 135 there are some scumbag 91 outfits.

What do you do?

You avoid scumbag 91 outfits....just you avoid scumbag 135 operations, scumbag airlines, and scumbag fractional outfits...pick and choose wisely.



Decent outfits follow SOPs and Policies - 91,135, or otherwise.

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Buckeye:So Coporate guys how hard is it to say no?


Very easy to say no. Next question.

BTW, myself and my partner in crime on a recent flight changed the itinerary of going to an airport with a 4500 foot runway to one 45 driving miles away with a much longer runway even though our SOP's allow for a 4500 foot strip. Getting jealous yet? I guess you think 91 flyboys have no lee way when it comes to the boss's itinerary. The billionaire(s) I fly know their butt is worth more than risking a short runway than a 45 mile limo drive. All they asked was to leave 1 hour earlier to compensate. I wish you all the same luck with management, especially buckeye.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

My question, in today's economy, are you willing to go to the bottom of someone's seniority list? I'm pretty sure NJA is not like Options and is last in first out.

 

[Buckeye]

Bravo, Bravo so you made a decision based on conditions. I assume from the sound of it you are part of two guys and a plane? Do you have hard days off? Do you guys have part timers to rotate for vacation? The part 91 stuff I have seen involved an awful lot of Late arrivals followed by many early departures (8 hour turns). I suppose with no mandatory back ground check or PRIA a guy or gal could hide a few things? But enough bickering, obviously you can't follow FI policies with Avatars so I would not expect you to follow SOP's in the cockpit.

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Bravo, Bravo so you made a decision based on conditions. I assume from the sound of it you are part of two guys and a plane? Do you have hard days off? Do you guys have part timers to rotate for vacation? The part 91 stuff I have seen involved an awful lot of Late arrivals followed by many early departures (8 hour turns). I suppose with no mandatory back ground check or PRIA a guy or gal could hide a few things? But enough bickering, obviously you can't follow FI policies with Avatars so I would not expect you to follow SOP's in the cockpit.

Actually 28 pilots 7 jets so part timers need not apply. The oldest bird is 4 years old which I fly. We have a DO, CP, Safety Officer, Standards Capt on each of out 4 Different types and 8 mechanics. I am up to 5 weeks vacation in 5 years with 4 hard days a month off. I am in the busy time of year so I fly about 15 hours a month, so again you are wrong in many attributes but you get an A for effort.

I have never seen a so called early departure followed by a late arrival on the same day. I never have that much time playing fbo lounge lizard bitching on my laptop during duty time. I usually laptop bitch from the hotel room or home. Believe it or not some pilots here would rather fly more often! This is not a 91 company to build jet time. The pay is near the top of NBAA averages. Gotta also love the good ole boy system, keeps mostly unwanted personnel from worming themselves in.

The avatar I currently have this month is set up particulary for 91 haters. Are you one of them?

Happy Flying

 

[Buckeye]

I am not a "91 Hater", your preception of certian fascites of aviation is based on hear say and experience. Well mine is as well, granted companys like Proctor and Gamble have great very well run flight departments. But that is not always the norm. My experience with 91 individuals at a previous employment was not stellar, they did not do well in training. Mostly with SOP's, profiles and procedures. Unfortunately that is what I have to base my perception on. They all had varying backgrounds; ages; and flight time some were military pilots at one point. I believe to each his own, but if you are gonna pick on or bash one side.....I will be more than happy to go around as much as you want.

 

[matthewjohn]

OK. To answer some previous questions and to get this thread back on track.......

My dep currently has 5 pilots and are in process of hiring a 6th. I am # 3. We have 2 new AC and one older one we are either going to sell or hire more crew.

A recent change has been the use of contract pilots to give pilots a break for a day. This use is still at the CP discerssion and I'm sure budget will dictate how frequent.

No, we do not have any hard days off beside vacation. With thatsaid , 1 week vacation = 1 week and you will probably fly the friday before and monday after.

I have been with the company for about 3 years and due to attrition have been a CA for over a year. Pay is not on par with what a NJA CA makes 1st year using the 7 on 7 off pay scale. and that is just their base pay also not including "overtime" and a lot of per deim. Our flying (if it can be compared) most reflects their 15 day flex.
http://www.netjets.com/NetJets_Pilots/pdfs/Pilots.pay.benefits.package.pdf
I am not allowed to say what current pay is but it is below the 1st year CA using 7on/off pay. We have no idea when or if we are getting raises (which is another think I dont like about corp depts also your buddy might be making 10k more because he negotiated it).

Going to the bottom of a list for NJA does not bother me too much given the aircraft on order and "proposed" hiring for forseeable future. My company is in textiles and chemicals (even though they say we have done VERY well this year and last) I could see it closing up and using a NJA service before I can see NJA closing down.

Extra duties:
--I am the flight standards CA, so given the recent new aircraft has been overwealming task of developing and revising SOP's (we cant stand FSI's procedures) as well as revising when safety / manufacturer items come out or dictate.
--Crew currency and training
--catering and AC stock
--Computer "tech support" goto guy
--soon to be crew scheduler (if I stay)
Sometimes it is not that much, especially if you keep organized, but it is enough that if you fly 3-4 days you end up only having 1-2 days off a week.

Also another question for you all.
Right now we do not have any kids, so how do your kids handle not knowing when you will be off or when you might be able to attend events of theirs. If your sched is anything of like ours in not known till a day or two prior. Would it be better to be home a day or two more a month not knowing when, or to know when your going to be home so you can plan family time?

Thanks for all the input!

 

[johnsonrod]

I'd go to NJA. You can get a schedule, you will fly very nice airplanes, you get competitive pay and a choice of 100 domiciles. Plus, Warren Buffet owns your company (you get some job security). It's difficult to beat that package...

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Have you even applied to NJ? Its a lot different to say, "I've been offered a job, should I leave my present company." There are going to be thousands of airline pilots with more experience than you applying to NJ in the next few months and you might not be offered a position. Start by applying, receiving a job offer, and going from that point. Right now it is shooting in the dark. You have what sounds like a very standard corporate job with some stability and some seniority protection, a small flight department where you know everyone, have some responsibility, etc. Really want to give that up to pull gear for 5 years for a different Captain every week, if you get in? From your profile it looks like you flew for a regional so you remember what thats like. Different pilots every sequence, slave to the pager, etc. The grass may be greener, but that could be because of all the crap. Good luck!

 

[matthewjohn]

Lets just say I have a decision to make! I have no problem "swinging gear" for that time or longer if need be. And I think you mean you would not be a slave to a pager for NJA, because I definitly am now for 91. I remember what the airline was like and beside crappy pay and non reving to work, it was a good job.

 

[Rook]

The grass may be greener, but that could be because of all the crap.

Brilliant! I need to frame this and hang it up in my living room. Good post Hugh.