Leave Fortune 100 for NJA?

[skiandsurf]

A couple of weeks ago, I was at a Citation Service Center, and got talking to a Part 91, C750 capt. This guys job sounded terrible. He was telling us that he is the 5th or 6th PIC that these people have hired, all the others have quit. Sure it is a single pilot operation....the owner is the "other pilot".

Sure this is a different situation, but it is still part 91......you can have it.

And BTW, I am on day 11 of my 19 day vacation.

I am biased to NJs.

 

[xpdriver]

A couple of weeks ago, I was at a Citation Service Center, and got talking to a Part 91, C750 capt. This guys job sounded terrible. He was telling us that he is the 5th or 6th PIC that these people have hired, all the others have quit. Sure it is a single pilot operation....the owner is the "other pilot".

Sure this is a different situation, but it is still part 91......you can have it.

And BTW, I am on day 11 of my 19 day vacation.

I am biased to NJs.

I'm on day 15 of 21.....

 

[FurloughedAgain]

got talking to a Part 91, C750 capt. This guys job sounded terrible. He was telling us that he is the 5th or 6th PIC that these people have hired, all the others have quit. Sure it is a single pilot operation....the owner is the "other pilot".

Sure this is a different situation, but it is still part 91......you can have it.

There is a HUGE difference between single plane/single pilot part 91 and the part 91 flight departments of fortune 100 companies.

Exxon, Chevron, Conoco, Home Depot, Proctor and Gamble, Johnson and Johnson... and hundreds more corporations that rely upon corporate aviation to get the job done. Some of the Fortune 100 have large numbers of airplanes and quite a few pilots, schedulers, dispatchers, flight followers... you name it!

Beyond some number of flight-hours per year it becomes smarter, economically to own than rent.

 

[CA1900]

Beyond some number of flight-hours per year it becomes smarter, economically to own than rent.

Exactly! Thread over.

For the couple we took to go golfing today, who fly a couple of times a month, their Marquis card is the perfect option for them. Owning a plane would be complete overkill.

For the corporation that flies executives around many times a week for business, and brings them back to base that night (or maybe the next)? A private flight department makes much more sense.

Many companies do both: they have their own large flight department, but also own a share in a fractional to cover unusual one-offs or peak demand that their own department can't cover (or would waste a lot of money covering). Some also use us so they can give their own guys the holidays off. Everybody wins.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Guys come on..You know what i'm saying....You right not EVERY time but is it worth the risk?


Everytime Warren buys a company the flying goes to NJA granted he owns NJA..but mergers,buyout etc...

All i'm saying is NJa is a better bet than almost any part 91 company....

Almost any?

I work for a very average PT 91 department, and I would certainly not want to go to Netjets.

7 days of 5 leg trips? min rest? no thanks!....Aspen, Palm Beach, Teterboro...no thanks! It would take 3 of the 7 days off just to recover. We start guys at 125K (plus possible bonus/stock) and thats really not too competitive these days.

How long does it take a Netjet new hire to get to 150K, work an average of 10 days a month, and get 4 weeks vacation? These are pretty common Pt91 starting numbers these days.

And as far as the stability? - I really hope you dont think that Netjets is any more stable than a PT91 job....thats essentially what you are!

The fight department first to go? is this 1985?

As much as the economy has been strained lately, how many F200 departments have shut down, or even slowed their flying? Do they just give up and stop traveling around the world to make money?

Its great you like your job, but I hope you realize we are are ALL pretty much in the same boat.

 

[BoilerUP]

Beyond some number of flight-hours per year it becomes smarter, economically to own than rent.

200 hours in a NJA Ultra is the same cost as about 375 hours in our Citation II.

 

[sleepy]

Almost any?

I work for a very average PT 91 department, and I would certainly not want to go to Netjets.

7 days of 5 leg trips? min rest? no thanks!....Aspen, Palm Beach, Teterboro...no thanks! It would take 3 of the 7 days off just to recover. We start guys at 125K (plus possible bonus/stock) and thats really not too competitive these days.

How long does it take a Netjet new hire to get to 150K, work an average of 10 days a month, and get 4 weeks vacation? These are pretty common Pt91 starting numbers these days.

And as far as the stability? - I really hope you dont think that Netjets is any more stable than a PT91 job....thats essentially what you are!

The fight department first to go? is this 1985?

As much as the economy has been strained lately, how many F200 departments have shut down, or even slowed their flying? Do they just give up and stop traveling around the world to make money?

Its great you like your job, but I hope you realize we are are ALL pretty much in the same boat.

I work for a Fortune 40 flight department. All Part 91. Our company is going through some tough times right now with the economy and housing problems. We are flying 30% more this year than we did last year. All 5 of our aircraft fly pretty much every Monday through Friday. Lots of weekends too.

It hard to say that we will be the first to go. How can you look at 2500 stores in the US, Canada, Mexico and China using the airlines? You can't.

 

[CA1900]

7 days of 5 leg trips? min rest? no thanks!

You don't really think that's what we do, do you?

Let me review my week for you, which was very similar to my last tour:

Day 1: show around 9am for a short airline from Orlando to Savannah to pick up a plane. Fly a short, empty flight to a cool little beach town in north Florida, and spend the night by the water. Done. 9.7 hours of duty, 13 hours off.

Day 2: Fly a group of businessmen to a meeting in Minneapolis, wait a few hours, then continue with them to Omaha. Spend the night downtown. 9.5 hours on duty, 18.5 hours off.

Day 3: Fly a real nice couple from Omaha up to Michigan to go golfing. Then fly the plane to Milwaukee for scheduled maintenance. Done. 8.5 hours on duty, 21 hours off.

Day 4: Duty at hotel starting mid-afternoon, which is when the plane was schedule to be ready. Nothing came up, shut back down after 6 hours. Here I am in Milwaukee again, enjoying the nice weather and nice people, and tomorrow morning I airline home. This one's a minimum turn, yes -- but that's so they can put me on the first flight of the day, the 7:55am nonstop to Orlando on Midwest. I don't mind; I'll be home for a late lunch on my last workday.

Never saw Aspen, Palm Beach, Teterboro, or a min-rest turn. Same with last week.

Do we sometimes have busy days, busy seasons, and short turns? Of course! But that's not the day-in, day-out routine all year. Not by a long shot.


There are great 91 jobs that make mine pale in comparison; I don't doubt that for a minute. But I think you have a real misunderstanding about the typical day of a Netjets guy.

Its great you like your job, but I hope you realize we are are ALL pretty much in the same boat.

That's exactly what I was gonna say to you! :beer:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You don't really think that's what we do, do you?

Let me review my week for you, which was very similar to my last tour:

Day 1: show around 9am for a short airline from Orlando to Savannah to pick up a plane. Fly a short, empty flight to a cool little beach town in north Florida, and spend the night by the water. Done. 9.7 hours of duty, 13 hours off.

Day 2: Fly a group of businessmen to a meeting in Minneapolis, wait a few hours, then continue with them to Omaha. Spend the night downtown. 9.5 hours on duty, 18.5 hours off.

Day 3: Fly a real nice couple from Omaha up to Michigan to go golfing. Then fly the plane to Milwaukee for scheduled maintenance. Done. 8.5 hours on duty, 21 hours off.

Day 4: Duty at hotel starting mid-afternoon, which is when the plane was schedule to be ready. Nothing came up, shut back down after 6 hours. Here I am in Milwaukee again, enjoying the nice weather and nice people, and tomorrow morning I airline home. This one's a minimum turn, yes -- but that's so they can put me on the first flight of the day, the 7:55am nonstop to Orlando on Midwest. I don't mind; I'll be home for a late lunch on my last workday.

Never saw Aspen, Palm Beach, Teterboro, or a min-rest turn. Same with last week.

Do we sometimes have busy days, busy seasons, and short turns? Of course! But that's not the day-in, day-out routine all year. Not by a long shot.


There are great 91 jobs that make mine pale in comparison; I don't doubt that for a minute. But I think you have a real misunderstanding about the typical day of a Netjets guy.



That's exactly what I was gonna say to you! :beer:

Just goes to show that comparing the 2 is pointless....eveything you describe makes me cringe....13, 19, 21 hours rest being generous?, A few days in Milwaukee? multiple domestic stops? airline trips to and from work?

Sounds like hard work!.....just as if I described my typical NY-Dubai nonstop then home through London a few days later would make others cringe....

Its all in what makes one (and their family) happy, I suppose.

I can also tell you that from my last few airline experiences that NONE of us in corp/frac will be unemployed for very long no matter what. Their service has 100% sealed that fact for the foreseeable future.

 

[CA1900]

A few days in Milwaukee? multiple domestic stops?airline trips to and from work?

Of course multiple domestic stops! I'm in an Excel! Ask some of our Gulfstream guys, and I'm sure you'll get a totally different perspective on the business.

The airline to and from work is a negative of the fractional job in one aspect, but a positive in another: it means I can move clear across the country with a month's notice (which I'll be doing next year), and still be able to keep the same employer. That's a nice perk. That said, the last two tours haven't involved an airline to a plane: there was one waiting for me there in Orlando. A perk of living in a city with one of your plane's service centers!


It's all relative, I guess. I'd have mentioned the 24 hours in Cabo a couple of months ago (versus Milwaukee), but that wasn't recent in my mind, and the MKE skyline is.

Off to go order an Amstel and see if I can get punched....

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

You don't really think that's what we do, do you?

Let me review my week for you, which was very similar to my last tour:

Day 1: show around 9am for a short airline (ack number 1) from Orlando to Savannah to pick up (I hate picking up new deliveries of our jets let alone an empty one to start th eday off wrong) a plane. Fly a short, empty flight to a cool little beach town in north Florida, and spend the night by the water.(Trying not to spend more than 5 bucks of your own money cause most of you hate to use that per diem) (Also trying to feel out th eother pilot if he is a NARCing type for a few beers before bed time) Done. 9.7 hours of duty, 13 hours off.

Day 2: Fly a group of businessmen to a meeting in Minneapolis, wait a few hours(usually eatting catering), then continue with them to Omaha(more catering! Yummy!). Spend the night downtown. 9.5 hours on duty, 18.5 hours off.(Think your missing that common NJ Scheduling SNAFU here...Sit at the Omaha FBO til Scheduling figures out they don't have squat for you after sitting for 4 more hours than maybe get a "ride" to your hotel or DH to that next wonderful spot in the midwest.)

Day 3: Fly a real nice couple (Hey wheres my tip? Heh j/k here, I never get tips either, dont really need em.)from Omaha up to Michigan to go golfing (Golfing for the pax ofcourse not crew-had to clarify-More catering btw). Then fly the plane to Milwaukee for scheduled maintenance. Done. 8.5 hours on duty, 21 hours off(Still trying to see if it is okay to have a drink or not).

Day 4: Duty at hotel starting mid-afternoon,(what?, no rental to go see some sites while both of you can?) which is when the plane was schedule to be ready. Nothing came up,(call hotel shuttle again) shut back down after 6 hours. Here I am in Milwaukee again, enjoying the nice weather and nice people, and tomorrow morning I airline (No comment)home. This one's a minimum turn, yes -- but that's so they can put me on the first flight of the day, the 7:55am nonstop to Orlando on Midwest. I don't mind; I'll be home for a late lunch (real food now)on my last workday.

Never saw Aspen,(Hey, what is wrong with Aspen? great place if you have a car and they set you up in a decent hotel downtown instead of those hotels near the airport)Palm Beach, Teterboro, or a min-rest turn. Same with last week. (Still wondering if your partner in crime is gonna rat you out for having a couple beers)

Do we sometimes have busy days, busy seasons, and short turns? Of course! But that's not the day-in, day-out routine all year. Not by a long shot.


There are great 91 jobs that make mine pale in comparison; I don't doubt that for a minute. But I think you have a real misunderstanding about the typical day of a Netjets guy.



That's exactly what I was gonna say to you! :beer:

Since I know and hangar chat with quite a few NJ guys please notice the changes to CA1900's list which needed a slight adjustment...

Edit--My NJ buds find this thread entertaining and told me to post more often. I am trying to break triple digits on post counts.

 

[xpdriver]

Almost any?

I work for a very average PT 91 department, and I would certainly not want to go to Netjets.

7 days of 5 leg trips? min rest? no thanks!....Aspen, Palm Beach, Teterboro...no thanks! It would take 3 of the 7 days off just to recover. We start guys at 125K (plus possible bonus/stock) and thats really not too competitive these days.

How long does it take a Netjet new hire to get to 150K, work an average of 10 days a month, and get 4 weeks vacation? These are pretty common Pt91 starting numbers these days.

And as far as the stability? - I really hope you dont think that Netjets is any more stable than a PT91 job....thats essentially what you are!

The fight department first to go? is this 1985?

As much as the economy has been strained lately, how many F200 departments have shut down, or even slowed their flying? Do they just give up and stop traveling around the world to make money?

Its great you like your job, but I hope you realize we are are ALL pretty much in the same boat.

that why i said almost..sounds like you have a good job..

 

[skiandsurf]

Guys, it appears that we all like OUR OWN JOBS. This is a great thing.

For me, NJs is secure (for now), it offers a wide variety of both destinations and pax. I have no need to fly to Dubai, or Cairo, or any foreign destination. Canada and Mexico are far enough, and big enough pain in the a$$, for me.

What I really like about NJs, is seniority. Having about 700 guys junior to me in these times is a huge benefit.

FWIW, an old friend of mine was flying a GEX and a helicopter. Sounded like a great job. He loved the GEX, but hated the range. Loved the helicopter, and the shorter flights. He quit, due to the GEX.

 

[CA1900]

(Parenthetical stuff is yours)

...to pick up (I hate picking up new deliveries of our jets let alone an empty one to start th eday off wrong) a plane.

Uhhh... since I don't fly on my week off, how exactly do you suggest I get myself into an airplane? I'd love to just keep it in the garage on my week off, but the company frowns on that.

Fly a short, empty flight to a cool little beach town in north Florida, and spend the night by the water.(Trying not to spend more than 5 bucks of your own money cause most of you hate to use that per diem)

Ahh, glaring generalizations. Gotta love 'em. I had a nice dinner at an Italian restaurant that ran me about $60 with drinks. I'd much rather sit down to a nice meal than eat out of a box, when the opportunity presents itself.

(Also trying to feel out th eother pilot if he is a NARCing type for a few beers before bed time)

Why would anybody NARC anybody else? There's no prohibition against drinking beer on overnights. Off-duty is off-duty.

Day 2: Fly a group of businessmen to a meeting in Minneapolis, wait a few hours(usually eatting catering), then continue with them to Omaha(more catering! Yummy!).

Minneapolis was lunch at a Mongolian BBQ a few miles from the airport, actually.

(Think your missing that common NJ Scheduling SNAFU here...Sit at the Omaha FBO til Scheduling figures out they don't have squat for you after sitting for 4 more hours...

Uhhh, no, they planned from the beginning to have us wait for the passengers.

... than maybe get a "ride" to your hotel or DH to that next wonderful spot in the midwest.)

There are two kinds of people in this world: those that find a reason to be unhappy where they are, and those who find good things to do in the place they find themselves. Fate dropped me in the midwest this week; I choose to make the most of where I am, whether it's a city in the midwest, a little town in Canada, or even Teterboro.

... to Michigan to go golfing (Golfing for the pax ofcourse not crew-had to clarify-More catering btw).

We had a ~90-minute turn, so yes, we had catering for lunch. It was from our caterer in Omaha, which does a nice job, and I enjoyed it. What's the problem?

21 hours off(Still trying to see if it is okay to have a drink or not).

Not sure what you're going on about regarding the drinks... we went out and had a good time.

Day 4: Duty at hotel starting mid-afternoon,(what?, no rental to go see some sites while both of you can?)

Nope, had to settle for the crew car from the FBO.

Nothing came up,(call hotel shuttle again)

Never went to the airport; no shuttle involved.

...tomorrow morning I airline (No comment)home.

Given the choice of taking an airline or two during my work week, or never being able to move to another city if I want to keep my job, that's an easy choice.

(Still wondering if your partner in crime is gonna rat you out for having a couple beers)

Just got back from several with him. What the heck is your fetish with the beer police?

 

[White Feather]

Let's not let this degenerate into an internet argument. The OP is just looking for some perspective regarding large dept 91 vs. NJA. Both operations have there advantages, and disadvantages - depending on your perspective.

:beer:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have never argued on the internet.

 

[CA1900]

I have never argued on the internet.

Me either. :laugh:

 

[AA717driver]

Yes you have! TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yes you have! TC

HAVE NOT!
airline guy wanna be corporate pilot.

 

[BoilerUP]

G200 doesn't argue...he counsels others on why they are wrong.