DAL, Why Vote No???

[~~~^~~~]

True.

Fine with me. They are Delta pilots.

My SWAG is that they will come over via an entitlement bid with what they can hold without displacing Delta pilots. Makes more sense than a lot of extra training cycles on the wrong aircraft. Hence the rush to get this done.

 

[licorice]

Like I said go read all of the LOA and Memorandums of Understanding on the ALPA site. There are over 150 pages of documents there. Basically everything tied to this merger from both sides.
Let early out MOA is probably for NWA guys, but it is vague, as it should be.
The framework is there as well. Also there is a MOA between both MEC's on the SLI and discovery. It is vague but what I got from it was that pay per seat does not equate seniority of A/C or pilot. Again I may be stretching here, but it does leave a lot to interpretation.

There are protections for DAL pilots in LOA 19 that are not there in the JPWA with obvious reason. It is joint contract and favoring one side should not be included and isn't. I will say that after eight plus hrs of reading this stuff today, I am impressed with the depth at which we negotiated. I want all of this behind us, but loosing my job when I otherwise would have not is a steep price to pay. Not saying I am a no, just stating a thought. In fact if I had to vote today, it would probably be a yes.
I hope that the road shows present the facts and not try to sway the rank-and-file's vote. Basically we are all voting for our future. How we play this will determine what type of group we are for the next 30 years.

I heard this on another post, which is a little hard to believe.... pay will not be a factor in SLI? So I guess DL and NW pilots benefitted equally from the TA? This seems a little hard to believe that the DL MEC would agree to that (if it's true) There has to be something more to that story than meets the eye...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Licorice,

There is. As ACL65 posted, you have to read the whole package. Included therein is a non-prejudicial agreement that outlines the rules of engagement for SLI. It will be a negotiated settlement. If negotiations fail, then both sides have a framework for a fair arbitration.

From your MEC/LEC page, go to the merger page, in the center of the page is a list of documents. Click below to see all documents and the other agreements are listed below. Well worth your time to read them.

NWA has theirs posted also.

I could be surprised, but I think both sides will be fairly handled under the framework agreed to.

 

[Superpilot92]

What furloughs? You guys are arguing hypothetical situations, as of right now furloughs arent going to happen. On a positive note, they are working on getting some of the senior guys to jumpship which is good for all of us. DAL offered some programs on your side also, right? Both sides would prefer not to furlough and take on the added costs of training since they know any furlough would be short lived with the new planes coming. I just dont see furloughs happening UNLESS oil keeps going up. Lets hope after the 4th of july weekend it will stabilize or go back down.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

None that I have seen.
Not arguing furloughs, just what ifs and you know that.
It is an agreement with the MEC's

The DAL beef was with the 320 paying more than the larger 88. It does work both ways though.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I'll make it simple.....

Delta Pilots have no upside as a result of this Joint contract. No improvements other than double OT pay. NWA pilots get 1000 sick bank until exhausted, big pay raises, comparable equity, a pension (frozen, but still there).

I voted yes on LOA 19 to give them time to work out improvements on TOP OF the LOA.....which never materialized. We have leverage as a group, and nobody wants to take the helm. ALPA has signed on unanimously supporting this POS, which makes me even more suspicious....oh and did I mention a 2013 amended date.....so using the usual bargaining position of management, we won't see any Section 6 improvements until 2015 at the earliest with a fraction of retro pay.....

Did someone mention the SLI?? We haven't even begun that road to Arbitration yet....

Yeah, GREAT TA ALPA(Thumbs up!!!)

Count me for a NO vote!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

None that I have seen.
Not arguing furloughs, just what ifs and you know that.
It is an agreement with the MEC's

The DAL beef was with the 320 paying more than the larger 88. It does work both ways though.

Thats not just a DAL beef, NWALPA listed those issues as 1 of their beefs also. I will find the quote for you.

 

[DTW320]

None that I have seen.
Not arguing furloughs, just what ifs and you know that.
It is an agreement with the MEC's

The DAL beef was with the 320 paying more than the larger 88. It does work both ways though.

Do you mean the 319? A320 = 148 seats.

If that was DAL's beef then it was disingenuous for them to NOT have a beef with paying the 747-400 the same as the smaller 777.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And thus why the letter was written.

 

[DTW320]

I'll make it simple.....

Delta Pilots have no upside as a result of this Joint contract. Yet you thought LOA19 was fine right? No improvements other than double OT pay. NWA pilots get 1000 sick bank until exhausted,1000 hours that were earned over years and years and still represents a huge reduction for many pilots with balances way over 1000,big pay raises brought to parity with DAL....are you suggesting that DAL pilots should make more than NWA pilots after the merger is complete?, comparable equity see above, a pension (frozen, but still there)The frozen pension was not something NWA "got" from the joint contract....it was "gotten" from the NWA contracts from the past decades.

I voted yes on LOA 19 to give them time to work out improvements on TOP OF the LOA.....which never materialized. We have leverage as a group, and nobody wants to take the helm. ALPA has signed on unanimously supporting this POS, which makes me even more suspicious....oh and did I mention a 2013 amended date.....so using the usual bargaining position of management, we won't see any Section 6 improvements until 2015 at the earliest with a fraction of retro pay.....look around...hopefully by 2013 we will still be in business and things may have improved enough with oil/industry to have even a shot at improving anything.

Did someone mention the SLI?? We haven't even begun that road to Arbitration yet....Have you read the TA?

Yeah, GREAT TA ALPA(Thumbs up!!!)

Count me for a NO vote!!!

You should vote your conscience, but think about what the ultimate outcome of downing this may be.

​

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I for one, am overall fine with the JPWA. The NWA pilots as we knew had to get some improvements to bring them up to our contract... thus it is logical they will benefit more from the JPWA as their payrates and other items were considerably lower.


I've got a fairly good feeling about the SLI- I think it will go someplace close to relative. From what I've seen so far, yes vote from me.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that once people really look at these as two separate events and can read all the documents as such, they will realize that there is not much a yes vote or a no vote will do to derail this event. It may cause more issue in the near term to vote no.
Voting No does not mean that the SLI will not continue. It just means that we will have to deal with a joint contract down the road after the SLI. Most DAL guys I talk to are for that. They see no gains by voting this in. The JPWA binds a lot of things that are still quite unknown.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Myself and a lot of other as well are a yes. People need to separate the forest from the trees. Stopping this will not change a thing. Remember the NWA guys are not your enemy. Current sparring partner yes, but not your enemy.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You should vote your conscience, but think about what the ultimate outcome of downing this may be.

320,

You are damn right I thought LOA 19 was ok....because it was supposed to be a stepping stone.....a spot to pause while you redtails did your whining. Once together, we should have used LOA 19 as the foundation for a better contract....not the status quo.....

It is what it is, Delta pilots get nothing other than double pay for OT and you guys get LOTS of improvements AND EQUITY ....of course I want parity...but add it up....big improvements to your pension protecting BK contract (how's those interstate layovers??) while we see NOTHING but posturing over who's gonna eat your furloughs....

ooooooo.....and what would that "ultimate outcome" be crystal ballsack?? Go run home and find another arguement and quit selling fear like the MEC's will do to shove this POS down throats....

 

[Superpilot92]

I heard this on another post, which is a little hard to believe.... pay will not be a factor in SLI? So I guess DL and NW pilots benefitted equally from the TA? This seems a little hard to believe that the DL MEC would agree to that (if it's true) DID YOU JUST SAY THAT?? There has to be something more to that story than meets the eye...

WOW!! DO YOU REALIZE HOW BAD THAT SOUNDS?