Skywest in Aspen

[skiandsurf]

I don't know about the CV-580 but the BAe146 did a bang up job in ASE and we didn't have an "emergency extraction" procedure. If we needed to go around, terrain clearance was never a problem...even on the 1 engine out balked landing procedure. The procedures where highly defined and specific DMEs had to be adhered to. Otherwise the engine out go-around (including losing an engine during a 4 engine go-around) was simply an LNAV procedure. What Skywest got approved for is simply rolling the dice every time they go in there. Their Jepps plainly state that "terrain clearance is not assured". No thanks, I'll take the bus.

This thread went much further than I ever imagined.

And for the record...the ATIS was calling the winds at 330/10G17. So the steady wind was at the limit. We were following this plane and heard him being "cleared to land runway 15, winds 330 at 12 kts". They continued. While they were still on the approach, we were cleared to land with the same winds. We continued. As they were about to touch down we asked for the winds ( we were at the point to make a decision). "320 at 17kts". They were down low and continued, while we were about 3 miles in trail and executed a missed (or go-around), and went to the alternate (KEGE).

While watching them continue, I couldnt help but thinking if I was on there, knowing that they landed with a 15+kt tailwind. Reminds me of the Airtran jumpseater sitting in the back of the Comair flight in KLEX.

Just be careful out there....it aint worth it.

 

[FishandFly]

How often do you guys fly there with high winds and no alternate? i.e. does dispatch always add an alternate?

 

[WalterSobchak]

How often do you guys fly there with high winds and no alternate? i.e. does dispatch always add an alternate?

I may not always list an alternate, but I personally dispatch ASE with a load of extra fuel to get to DEN if the winds/cigs take a dump on us. LAX-ASE and ORD-ASE almost always get an alternate regardless...WX is just too predictible.

Very few times have I sent without the extra gas...only with 10sm, CLR, calm winds and forecast to stay that way. Divert burn to from DBL to KGJT is at least pretty close to our minimum contingency fuel anyway.

 

[dispatchguy]

Same here, when I was at AWI, I always carried at least GJT as an alternate for ASE, unless the weather was severe clear, with no chance of any clouds at all into ASE. Our rules required an alternate at 4000-4 or worse.

I did a jumpseat ride into there one day; VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

 

[Russ]

while we were about 3 miles in trail and executed a missed

Hmmm. Min in trail spacing on final at ASE is five miles as ATC has to protect for a missed approach by the preceeding ac minus an ability to vector.

I did a jumpseat ride into there one day; VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

Agree. All dispatchers that work ASE should be required to do some minimum number of observations to the ASE airport. I've been here approaching 10 years and have never had a dispatcher JS in the actual. Very few other pilots have seen them either.

 

[XPOO]

Hmmm. Min in trail spacing on final at ASE is five miles as ATC has to protect for a missed approach by the preceeding ac minus an ability to vector.



Agree. All dispatchers that work ASE should be required to do some minimum number of observations to the ASE airport. I've been here approaching 10 years and have never had a dispatcher JS in the actual. Very few other pilots have seen them either.

Hmmm.....might have something to do with the load factors in, but mostly OUT, of ASE in the CRJ-700.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Agree. All dispatchers that work ASE should be required to do some minimum number of observations to the ASE airport. I've been here approaching 10 years and have never had a dispatcher JS in the actual. Very few other pilots have seen them either.

It is definitely #1 on my list of places to go on my observation flights. Between MTOW issues out of ASE and a late inbound flight from SGU, it just hasn't worked out for me the 3 times I tried to do it. I plan on trying again for my next go-round of annual observation...or just when I happen to get a couple days off without previous plans.

 

[flyjumpseat]

I'll chime in as another dispatcher, that (almost) all ASE flights get the alternate fuel without actually listing the DEN or GJT as an alternate. I remember one ORD ASE flight I ran without the 'extra' fuel I didn't allow them to pass DEN without a fuel stop. The wind is just too variable there in ASE. We may not be IN the plane, but we do know what its all about. Well, most of us.

 

[XPOO]

Also, we have some very good video that was shot during the proving runs that all of us has seen numerous times.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Hmmm. Min in trail spacing on final at ASE is five miles as ATC has to protect for a missed approach by the preceeding ac minus an ability to vector.



Agree. All dispatchers that work ASE should be required to do some minimum number of observations to the ASE airport. I've been here approaching 10 years and have never had a dispatcher JS in the actual. Very few other pilots have seen them either.

I've had dispatchers in my jumpseat, not into ASE though.

 

[Russ]

We may not be IN the plane, but we do know what its all about. Well, most of us.

Not inferring anything. ASE is the most specialized flying we do and it can't be truly appreciated without seeing it. Especially in the wx, at night.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

When I picture a SKYW CA & FO on a overnight in ASE I think of the scene when they get out of the red Lamborghini with the furry boots on.

Yeah,
Instead of the lambo its a Yugo and the only thing furry are the Captains legs, back and pubes poking out of his Borat grade swimsuit. The F/O on the other hand isn't old enough to have pubes! This visual should provoke some nightmares!
PBR

 

[TheJCNIs]

The only good plane for ASE was the Avro RJ85 & BAE-146. I think it is crazy that they make you guys fly those CRJ in there. I now fly to eagle and drive!

 

[CFIT]

What is this "Emergency Extraction" that I keep reading about? Sounds like a missed approach that could lead to disasterous consequences.

With the way it is worded you all can have Aspen.

The extraction that someone else has described is fairly accurate which is .8 DME pass the localizer and a left turn to 275 degrees, flown at V2, 28 degrees of bank 2 engine and 25 degrees of bank single engine. The gauranteed terrain clearence issue is misleading in that the generous lattitudes of precision are not specifically there which is a mile either side of the desired course and for the most part +/- a thousand feet.

I have personally done quite a bit of the actual testing in the aircraft and have done the extraction many times, I even demostrated it with the FAA in the jump seat simulated single engine (one at idle) and only put the other engine to climb thrust, not APR.

Simply put, it can be done. We have an extensive course and evaluation for ASE and have a specific PC required eval for the specific crews that go in there. Very few SkyWest pilots are ASE qualified and current.


As far as the tailwind remark, Im raising the BS flag on that one.

 

[dispatchguy]

Simply put, it can be done. We have an extensive course and evaluation for ASE and have a specific PC required eval for the specific crews that go in there. Very few SkyWest pilots are ASE qualified and current.

As far as the tailwind remark, Im raising the BS flag on that one.

Somewhere on the PC here I have a copy of the SKW training guide for SKW; very well written.

At AWI, we had one BAe146 that had the 15-kt tailwind limitation for takeoff, a BAe146-100, only for use at ASE.

Like I said, the JS ride should be mandatory for dispatchers. I didnt appreciate the complexity until I saw it myself. I understand that Lynx in their Q400s can land on 33; THAT would be a JS ride!