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Skywest in Aspen

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I always tell my co-pilots to use common sense in my brief, and agree that scripted flying is no good.

Aspen is different than 99.9% of all airports in the US, we all know this. I was making my comment based on the OP and his statement of having to divert. It would seem they had the info far enough out to make the proper choice, unless the conditions were variable, which is very possible, the Skywest crew most likely had the same info.

All speculation, but the OP pretty much layed it out as straight forward.

Medeco
 
siucavflight said:
Really? So you think that if the crews answer as to why they did it was "it was the absolute safest course of action given the situation, landing was assured where as a go-around would have been in doubt given the wind shear and the terrain clearance issues we would have had." You then think that the Fed would violate them?
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When did the crew check the ATIS? I'm ASSUMING the winds were reported on the ATIS, no? It's possible winds kicked up 48 minutes after the previous ATIS was cut so maybe the crew was not notified until they were coming down the pipe...either way, always something new to learn about that airport.
 
JoeMerchant said:
You questioned the actual act of landing with the tailwind and as was explained.....sometimes it makes more sense to continue.....Recipe flying has become the norm....Not enough common sense....

The Vspeeds have changed 3 times since I have been flying the ATR....Profiles and callouts have changed more times than I can remember.....

Fly the D@mn airplane....use common sense....Procedures don't cover every situation....
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Suggesting that we use common sense when flying should include protecting yourself from being violated.

I'm not arguing what an airplane is capable of, but rather when a fed would violate you.
 
FishandFly said:
Suggesting that we use common sense when flying should include protecting yourself from being violated.

I'm not arguing what an airplane is capable of, but rather when a fed would violate you.
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....I'll continue to use common sense...The feds and common sense don't go together....

If they want to violate me for using common sense then so be it....

No flight is ever in 100% compliance of every rule.....I can't even keep track of all the changes that are made by beuracratic pin heads who have nothing better to do....

True safety has taken a backseat to "recipe flying" or "cookbook flying"....
 
Fishandfly,

I agree with what you're saying in concept, however Aspen is different. Inside 3.9 dme at 8780' if you have to go around it is an "emergency extraction procedure" not a go around. Emergency being the key word. There are a bunch of things about ase that are uncomfortable, the shifting winds are certainly in that group. I have had to go around because of wind in the canyon. Landing with the thrust levers in or recently having been in the T/O detent are not uncommon especially in the summer.
 
Seriously though. I'm sure everyone in this industry knows at least one person who flies at Skywest. Why not just ask them, about Skywest procedures instead of coming onto a public forum and letting the world know that a Skywest crew MAY have exceeded a limitation. That was kind of a doo-bag move if you ask me.
 
JoeMerchant said:
You questioned the actual act of landing with the tailwind and as was explained.....sometimes it makes more sense to continue.....Recipe flying has become the norm....Not enough common sense....

The Vspeeds have changed 3 times since I have been flying the ATR....Profiles and callouts have changed more times than I can remember.....

Fly the D@mn airplane....use common sense....Procedures don't cover every situation....
Click to expand...
Spoken like a "true"aviator, manufacturers airframe limitations, FARs, and company policy be damned, we gots 50 missions to complete. Joe you are showing your complete lack of brainpower. A superior aviator uses superior brain to avoid having to use his superior pilot skills. Wake up, ASE flying out of DEN is flown by the most junior crews in the company.
PBR
 
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PBR,

ASE flying in Den isn't junior anymore....stupid? well, opinions vary. Interesting post, nail somebody for what they said then turn around and say something stupid yourself. I'll let you respond because I can obviously learn a lot from you.
 
Freeze_gopher said:
PBR,

ASE flying in Den isn't junior anymore....stupid? well, opinions vary. Interesting post, nail somebody for what they said then turn around and say something stupid yourself. I'll let you respond because I can obviously learn a lot from you.
Click to expand...

Wally and I will be kicking back roasting marshmallows while you two ladies hash it out.
 
JoeMerchant said:
....I'll continue to use common sense...
Click to expand...
You couldn't find common sense in a paper bag!

The feds and common sense don't go together....
Click to expand...
Kind of like you and "professional pilot."

If they want to violate me for using common sense then so be it....
Click to expand...
Make sure and call the rjdc for that violation, they're looking out for your best interest!

No flight is ever in 100% compliance of every rule.....
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself moron! And you wonder why your pathetic lawsuit was a failure.

I can't even keep track of all the changes that are made by beuracratic pin heads who have nothing better to do....
Click to expand...
No, you're too busy suiing people for things you can't achieve on your own.

True safety has taken a backseat to "recipe flying" or "cookbook flying"....
Click to expand...
More snipets from the rjdc playbook?
 
Scope out RJ's said:
You couldn't find common sense in a paper bag!


Kind of like you and "professional pilot."


Make sure and call the rjdc for that violation, they're looking out for your best interest!


Speak for yourself moron! And you wonder why your pathetic lawsuit was a failure.


No, you're too busy suiing people for things you can't achieve on your own.


More snipets from the rjdc playbook?
Click to expand...
Hey, keep it down, sucker. You're ruining my S'mores over here...
 
CA1900 said:
That's the exact accident that came to my mind, too.
Click to expand...

A little less cumulo-granite in western VA.
But I wonder what your groundspeed across the #s would be at that altitude with 17kts of tailwind?

7,000ft gets chewed up pretty quick........

I wasn't there, so I wont second guess- no bent metal, no blood- the outcome was good...... But MY pucker-factor would have been so high, the seat cushion would have disappeared!
 
Freeze_gopher said:
PBR,

ASE flying in Den isn't junior anymore....stupid? well, opinions vary. Interesting post, nail somebody for what they said then turn around and say something stupid yourself. I'll let you respond because I can obviously learn a lot from you.
Click to expand...
Well,
Ground rodent, when I was based in DEN, ASE was initiated, and the only people flying it were a few LCA and the rest were junior guys who couldn't hold a "regular" line and the reserve guys couldn't hold anything except themselves. Any pilot who has been flying for a short while and has the ability to read an approach plate and TOPO map, realized that the ASE flying was and is a less than optimal way to make a living. I have flown hot and high density altitudes for too many years. Any approach that precludes a go around in normal circumstances and requires extraordinary navigation and procedural compliance to be possibly "safe" is not something an experienced aviator wants to put on his/her plate regularly. Can it be done, sure, but you are giving away margins, and experienced aviators don't give them away without good reason, and cash aint one of them. You will notice I removed stupid from my post, inexperienced does not equal stupid.
PBR
 
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Let's end this before it gets totally out of hand...may be too late. I've been doing this flying for over a year, and I've never landed with a 16kt tailwind. I have on numerous occasions gone around (including the emergency extraction procedure) because of visibility, wind direction etc. There is no "go around isn't an option" attitude associated with this flying. It's just flying. I'm not willing to bend a kite in LAX and its' exactly the same in ASE.
 
I've got some oatmeal in my locker...is popcorn still 65 cents in the vending machine?

Where's 10nCLR? I wonder what he's bringing to our impromptu pot luck?
 
The winds change direction and velocity often. The winds issued to you might have been the polar opposite of what the 700 crew received. To echo gopher, I've been doing ASE for 16 months now and have never landed with anything above 10 kts of tailwind.
ASE crews are spring loaded to not land in ASE. If anything is amiss, it's hold over DBL until fuel dictates heading to DEN or GJT. The level of alertness is significantly higher than landing on a 10K runway with an ILS in Kansas.
 
I got the Kool-Aid and the 100proof. Now give me a marshmallow Walter and it better be a semi-burnt one!!!!!!
 
Gotta have some popcorn, especially if you are expecting your LAX/ASE aircraft to hold for 45 mins before diverting to GJT.
 
When I picture a SKYW CA & FO on a overnight in ASE I think of the scene when they get out of the red Lamborghini with the furry boots on.
 

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