NWA Guys Disp to ANC? Anything Similar @ DL?

[Voice Of Reason]

What is going on at NW with all those involuntary displacements to ANC (Oct) of the bottom people? I thought you were getting rid of some of the 747s there? Why SO many sent there now? Is the training dept there staffed enough to train so many people at once? Is there similar shuffling at DL going on now? Why couldn't they leave people where they were until after the merger or agreement/seniority is finalized????
I thought they were saying that no one would get bumped out of their bases at NW/DL? Is this a preemptive thing to get it done BEFORE the merger, or just a delay tactic until deciding to furlough those poor guys? Didn't DL keep hiring new guys after NW did? What about those lower seniority guys?
Best of luck to everyone...hope your NW MEC is working hard to protect your jobs AND restore your bases. Doesn't sound like those displaced guys are even being given info about their fates... Hopefully this deal will be as good as they are making it sound publicly...it would be very wrong to furlough some some while claiming how this merger will create the strongest airline.

PS-- Where has Occam been hiding? He usually has good scoop... I need to know there is hope of going to at least one good place soon... Flops is killing my soul...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

::::crickets::::

...and the sound of the broom pushing this group of guys under the rug so they're forgotten? These guys left other jobs because they believed in these airlines and took a chance...how sad.

 

[Superpilot92]

no you are just stirring the pot and people arent biting

 

[Voice Of Reason]

no you are just stirring the pot and people arent biting

How am I stirring the pot????
Don't YOU wonder why you're being displaced to Anchorage before any agreement is even reached? Don't you wonder why they displaced you, some buddies of mine who went there, and all those other people while claiming they are reducing flying there?
How is it stirring the pot to ask what has not been answered...WHAT is your MEC telling YOU GUYS about why you've been randomly sent off to ANC?
I haven't heard ANYTHING about the displaced guy's fate...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

...AND as I asked...I haven't heard anything about if these similar kinds of movements pre-agreement are going on at DL? Anyone care to answer? Not stirring the pot...asking what hasn't been discussed... My buddies that went to NW have not been told anything about ANC...

 

[~~~^~~~]

According to my source, the DAL and MEC were briefed on furloughs this fall.

Without the merger official sources are saying Delta hires 125 to 140 this fall.

Sounds like NWA is stacking the list rather than make a furlough announcement prior to SLI. The SLI will get even messier if folks know that a few numbers mean the difference between having a job and not.

Truthfully, I don't know what to believe.

 

[Superpilot92]

How am I stirring the pot????
Don't YOU wonder why you're being displaced to Anchorage before any agreement is even reached? Don't you wonder why they displaced you, some buddies of mine who went there, and all those other people while claiming they are reducing flying there?
How is it stirring the pot to ask what has not been answered...WHAT is your MEC telling YOU GUYS about why you've been randomly sent off to ANC?
I haven't heard ANYTHING about the displaced guy's fate...

First I am not getting displaced. Secondly i dont know what the thought patterns are about moving people to the panel. I suspect the reason is that since the MSP 747-200 base is being reduced the senior guys on the panel might be bidding off of it since they cant stay in MSP thus needing more people being displaced to the panel. We are also still having retirements every month so i am sure even if they thought we were slightly overstaffed they dont want to furlough a small number of people when we are losing some at the same time. Also after the merger and some of the "gummers" figure out the equity HR suspects they will punch out. We'll See. Its not to sweep anyone under the rug, which is why i said you were stirring the pot.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

According to my source, the DAL and MEC were briefed on furloughs this fall.

Without the merger official sources are saying Delta hires 125 to 140 this fall.

Sounds like NWA is stacking the list rather than make a furlough announcement prior to SLI. The SLI will get even messier if folks know that a few numbers mean the difference between having a job and not.

Truthfully, I don't know what to believe.

What a mess...why would they have to furlough IF there IS a merger, and DL would hire if there is NOT? I thought there was all this talk about if they merged, needing MORE pilots due to DL's work rules?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

First I am not getting displaced.

how is that possible if you are a new hire at NWA this year?

 

[Superpilot92]

What a mess...why would they have to furlough IF there IS a merger, and DL would hire if there is NOT? I thought there was all this talk about if they merged, needing MORE pilots due to DL's work rules?

thats right, which is why i dont know why people are tossing furlough fear grenades .

 

[~~~^~~~]

What a mess...why would they have to furlough IF there IS a merger, and DL would hire if there is NOT? I thought there was all this talk about if they merged, needing MORE pilots due to DL's work rules?

NWA would need more pilots than they would need otherwise and Delta's need to hire would be remedied by absorbing the surplus NWA guys.

Everyone gets all mad when I post the demographic data and load factors, but Delta's plans seem to fit with the numbers I posted.

The plan as best I see it:

• Move NWA's big airplanes to Delta's big bases.
• Move Delta's smaller airplanes to NWA's bases that have less market demand
• Backfill DC9's, a few MD88's and even a couple 757's with excess RJ capacity and new RJ capacity being brought on line.
• Dump the whales as 777's are available to replace them.

Without the merger, NWA has too many big, underutilized airplanes and pilots. Without the merger Delta has to come up with cash to buy big airplanes. Merger allows for optimization and keeps more NWA pilots employed.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Its not to sweep anyone under the rug, which is why i said you were stirring the pot.

Wrong...
my reference to "sweeping under the rug" is regarding the silence about these people, and the odd displacements. You are confusing "sweeping under the rug" for the different, but often used here "throwing under the bus," which was not my point.

STILL no one has answered whether similar displacements are going on right now at DL????? Are they or aren't they? Simple question.

 

[Superpilot92]

how is that possible if you are a new hire at NWA this year?

There were less than 30 people i think that got displaced to the panel on this bid which should fully staff the position from here on out. Most of the displacements were people getting bumped from Block holder to Reserve throughout the list which is considered a displacement here at NWA because its a position difference. There were some awards on the bid also it wasnt all displacements. In fact as of right now i can still hold the airbus and i definitely did not get displaced.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Voice:

Sorry. I overlooked your question.

Delta has been posting position vacancies for new 777's and 737's, but has not been backfilling the MD88 and 757's. Some categories are very short right now and are not being filled. A 767ER or MD88 pilot can fly and earn as much as they want right now due to the shortages.

There is a debate whether the next 777 entitlement bid will include some back filling.

There has been no displacements to speak of. They moved 767-400 flying from one base to ATL, but it came with a big Captain AE so there was a lot of upward movement on that one.

------------
Superpilot's glass is half full because he has my beer in it.

 

[Superpilot92]

NWA would need more pilots than they would need otherwise and Delta's need to hire would be remedied by absorbing the surplus NWA guys.

Everyone gets all mad when I post the demographic data and load factors, but Delta's plans seem to fit with the numbers I posted.

The plan as best I see it:

• Move NWA's big airplanes to Delta's big bases.
• Move Delta's smaller airplanes to NWA's bases that have less market demand
• Backfill DC9's, a few MD88's and even a couple 757's with excess RJ capacity and new RJ capacity being brought on line.
• Dump the whales as 777's are available to replace them.

Without the merger, NWA has too many big, underutilized airplanes and pilots. Without the merger Delta has to come up with cash to buy big airplanes. Merger allows for optimization and keeps more NWA pilots employed.

Some would argue that the merger allows DAL the freedom to continue with growth plans and even add more during these tough economic times. Your own mgmt team has said the merger is what will allow DAL to meet all their debt obligations and to move forward with the growth plans.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Voice:

Sorry. I overlooked your question.

Delta has been posting position vacancies for new 777's and 737's, but has not been backfilling the MD88 and 757's. Some categories are very short right now and are not being filled. A 767ER or MD88 pilot can fly and earn as much as they want right now due to the shortages.

There is a debate whether the next 777 entitlement bid will include some back filling.

There has been no displacements to speak of. They moved 767-400 flying from one base to ATL, but it came with a big Captain AE so there was a lot of upward movement on that one.

Thanks for your mature answers to my questions...
SO when they've "talked of furloughs" will they (if they) happen AFTER an agreement...is the thing w/ NW disp just fodder for getting the SLI done quick, or do you think they are really in jeopardy pre- or post agreement?

 

[Flounder42]

Where are the surplus NWA pilots coming from? Are you hearing that there will be additional DC-9s getting parked?

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Spoke w/ a chief pilot. The Aug AE will have 777s in NYC and ATL w/backfilling.

 

[Superpilot92]

Where are the surplus NWA pilots coming from? Are you hearing that there will be additional DC-9s getting parked?

there are no additional 9 parkings than were already planned for. In fact we are keeping 3 more than we initially said. now keeping 61 instead of 58

 

[Flounder42]

Fins: I'm a bit confused, if there are no additional DC-9s getting parked, where are you hearing about NWA surplus pilots? Where are they coming from?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks for your mature answers to my questions...
SO when they've "talked of furloughs" will they (if they) happen AFTER an agreement...is the thing w/ NW disp just fodder for getting the SLI done quick, or do you think they are really in jeopardy pre- or post agreement?

Post agreement. But maybe prior to SLI (that wasn't clear). But I'm not sure which credible source to believe. Management may have been trying to twist arms on the MEC level to get this deal done.

Crew resources and the Chiefs have no reason to tell the Delta guys we're hiring, unless the plan is to hire pilots this fall. I would guess that they are not fully briefed on the avdanced planning information given to both of our MEC's.

My take is NWA is going to furlough. If we have an SLI then some Delta guys will be let go also.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Fins: I'm a bit confused, if there are no additional DC-9s getting parked, where are you hearing about NWA surplus pilots? Where are they coming from?

My buddies there said a bunch of guys from the 9's were on the displacement list to ANC where there were an access of seemingly unneeded (there) people "sent" for Oct

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Post agreement. But maybe prior to SLI (that wasn't clear). But I'm not sure which credible source to believe. Management may have been trying to twist arms on the MEC level to get this deal done.

Crew resources and the Chiefs have no reason to tell the Delta guys we're hiring, unless the plan is to hire pilots this fall. I would guess that they are not fully briefed on the avdanced planning information given to both of our MEC's.

My take is NWA is going to furlough. If we have an SLI then some Delta guys will be let go also.

I wonder what the amts/#s being considered are, esp since DL kept having classes AFTER NW stopped?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Who knows? They'd be smart to keep this under wraps until the SLI is done. Blinder's on.

Harder to lead the horse off the cliff if the horse sees where he's going.

What will be really weird is if Delta's hiring as flowbacks go to Compass. Then if MidWest pilots sue for integration we could just have a good ol' time.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Who knows? They'd be smart to keep this under wraps until the SLI is done. Blinder's on.

Harder to lead the horse off the cliff if the horse sees where he's going.

That's what I was talking about sweeping them under the rug and being so quiet about this...I think some people need to speak up for them and talk LOUDLY about it, and what is going to be done to protect their jobs. There is NO reason there should be layoffs when there could easily be buyouts...or better yet just give all those top people (with top pay of the pay scale wages) their equity stake NOW so they'll leave...it's obvious to everyone in aviation that is the only reason they decided to stick around...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Voice:

Well, there is another form of job protection called scope. AirLink is growing by 55% this year. That's NWA DC9 flying going out the door.

Not that Delta has any room to brag, but their over-outsourcing has reached a natural limit. The beach head is on the NWA property now.

This is a joint agreement. Seems like we should have jointly agreed to stop replacing our pilots. It will be interesting to read section 1.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Do the probation guys (like Superpilot) even GET a vote? Is the MEC looking out for them at ALL...(ie: doing anything to stop the furloughs, or at least change things so they keep longevity while furloughed and don't have to come back to the pitiful wages they were getting paid, sacrificing their needs just to get on with the company)? I don't know how my buddies do it, but they really believed NW was going to do well by them and were getting in at the right time.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Voice:

Well, there is another form of job protection called scope. AirLink is growing by 55% this year. That's NWA DC9 flying going out the door.

Not that Delta has any room to brag, but their over-outsourcing has reached a natural limit. The beach head is on the NWA property now.

This is a joint agreement. Seems like we should have jointly agreed to stop replacing our pilots. It will be interesting to read section 1.

Keep us here on the outside updated...am following this with great interest...seems like nowhere is a safe prospect anymore.

How does the agreement with Airlink work as far as flowdown? (IS there one?)...What kind of wage would flowdown guys make (not less than 1st year pay at the majors I hope)... DO they go to Captain slots or FOs...how would seniority work? Wouldn't the cost of all of that be counterintuitive to saving $$$, so IS there even going to be such a scenario? I hope so if the guys NEED it, but hope they aren't letting the regionals takeover all the mainline flying... it has been diluted enough as it is.

Here's a totally random stream of consciousness thought for down the road...since you guys are paid by PLANE then year, what happens when a singular great new (say 737 sized) Prius of aircraft comes out and the airlines decide to go to all or mostly those... do wages just drop across the board for everyone if all the big guzzlers are discarded?

 

[propdog]

How does the agreement with Airlink work as far as flowdown? (IS there one?)...What kind of wage would flowdown guys make (not less than 1st year pay at the majors I hope)... DO they go to Captain slots or FOs...how would seniority work?

I think you flow down to the top of their list---that is, as Captains. First year CA pay at Compass is $61/hr.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I think you flow down to the top of their list---that is, as Captains. First year CA pay at Compass is $61/hr.

Not bad considering where they were at 1st year...BUT are there limits of how many can flow down or how many can be Captains? Are they then stuck at compass for a couple of years if they elect to flowdown?