United Family Unity Rally in California--the big rat

[BUDDHA145]

you guys know if is this one...

http://www.chicagoclout.com/weblog/archives/Big Rat in Bridgeport.jpg

 

[SaturnPilot]

Whose fault is this?

uh, it's just reality. Are you asking who's to blame for the difference in compensation at the regional vs. mainline level?

 

[PCL_128]

you guys know if is this one...

http://www.chicagoclout.com/weblog/archives/Big Rat in Bridgeport.jpg

Different rat. ALPA owns their own inflatable rat, but it looks somewhat similar. The ALPA rat is holding big bags of money, wearing a suit, and smoking a cigar. Obviously a reference to uncontrolled management greed.

 

[tomgoodman]

A slander!

Different rat. ALPA owns their own inflatable rat, but it looks somewhat similar. The ALPA rat is holding big bags of money, wearing a suit, and smoking a cigar. Obviously a reference to uncontrolled management greed.

Stand by for a lawsuit from the National Committee for Fairness to Rodents. They're really cheesed off about this. :angryfire

 

[TurboAWD]

. Professional mistakes are made throughout other industries and not everyone is fired. It is not in the best interest of a company to do that.

If you think this industry is similar to other industries...you need to wake up.

By the way- Airlines often do things that are not in their best interest.

Turbo

 

[JoeMerchant]

How much of our dues is going for your $650,000 settlement that got you a milk toast remedy? Why did you lay down your gauntlet for such a weak remedy, if you believed in your cause?

Actually I estimate ALPA spent over 3.5 million total on the lawsuit....It is a weak remedy and I fully expect ALPA to not honor it....There will be more lawsuits as the different factions within this loose "association" spar with each other.....

By the way, as far as the disparate method of assessing dues on 401k contributuions, and as far as your campaign to insure "Duty of Fair Representation," is it fair for you to pay less dues by the present method and expect "Duty of Fair Representation?" That seems to be inconsistent with your logic!

The 401k exemption was started when us regional folks didn't have pension plans like the big boys....We subsidized their pensions with our low pay...Exempting the 401k money was the least ALPA could do for the "working class" members of ALPA...Fact remains....it is a dues increase now for a less than impressive job....

Are you leading the charge for decertification? So if you are successful, what would be your plan for protecting our contract? IF ALPA fails, what standard would protect the non-union carriers like Skywest and for that matter ASA?

No I'm not....in fact I'm on the fence about decertification....We always have the DFR lawsuit option if we remain in ALPA....We lose that if we leave....Heck of a union where we have to rely on DFR lawsuits to defend our interests....The leader is a former MEC member....many ALPA cheerleaders are now talking about it....Amazing how stupid this move was by ALPA....

The absence of ALPA, warts and all, would make us all sheep--including those good non-union companies that you like to use as flag bearers! As they said to the Colonists in the events leading up to the American Revolution, regarding their fear to stand up to the British, "Make yourselves sheep, and surely, you will be devoured by the Wolves!"

Mr. Merchant, if ALPA is gone, how will you protect us from the Wolves? Show us some of your good leadership, Mr. former Alpa cheerleader! What's the plan--to lead us off the cliff?

Without ALPA, like it or not, You might have to worry about alot more than your $25!

Actually I don't realy believe things would be much different without ALPA....ALPA doesn't have nearly the pull some would believe it does....This combined with the fact that Skywest is smart and actually believes in a good relationship with it's employees....Things wouldn't really change that much...

Setting that aside...nobody is advocating ditching ALPA for going non-union....An inhouse union or other option is what is being looked into.....You have a better chance of getting the Skywest pilots on board without ALPA....

ALPA is dieing a slow death...Even the senior member of the ASA MEC told me it would be smart to have a plan B as there is a good chance ALPA doesn't survive the current turmoil.....

Let's put some pressure on ALPA and prepare to go our own way....Maybe that will be the pressure ALPA needs to get it's act together.......

ALPA is about to lose another couple thousand members (ASTAR, UAL, CAL, Atlas/Polar, Spirit)....How much are the dues going to increase then?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Different rat. ALPA owns their own inflatable rat, but it looks somewhat similar. The ALPA rat is holding big bags of money, wearing a suit, and smoking a cigar. Obviously a reference to uncontrolled management greed.

....or a reference to an ALPA national officer.....

 

[PCL_128]

The leader is a former MEC member....

Please tell me it isn't Pennekamp.

 

[ex j-41]

Mesa is a great example of how poor management - employee relations will eventually lead to a failing company. Oh i am sure Greed (one of the 7 deadly sins) plays a huge role with Johny.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Setting that aside...nobody is advocating ditching ALPA for going non-union....An inhouse union or other option is what is being looked into.....You have a better chance of getting the Skywest pilots on board without ALPA....

ALPA is dieing a slow death...Even the senior member of the ASA MEC told me it would be smart to have a plan B as there is a good chance ALPA doesn't survive the current turmoil.....

Let's put some pressure on ALPA and prepare to go our own way....Maybe that will be the pressure ALPA needs to get it's act together.......

ALPA is about to lose another couple thousand members (ASTAR, UAL, CAL, Atlas/Polar, Spirit)....How much are the dues going to increase then?

I would caution anyone before they buy into this "go independent" idea. Joe wants an independent union at Skywest and ASA, but refuses to face the reality that said union would not make enough money to survive. A union the size of ASA takes in roughly a quarter million per year in dues revenue. One year of contract negotiations alone costs upward of a half million. How long was the last round of negotiations at ASA??? Keep in mind that the management team that chose to keep the pilots in such a long period of negotiations is the management team that Joe trusts to keep his quality of life the same without ALPA. Joe's only answer to this problem is that there would have to be some "belt tightening". Number-wise, the belt tightening would have to go so far as having a negotiating committee that flies the line full time (a great idea if you want a horrible contract), little to no legal support for negotiations or to fight grievances (which cost a great deal), little to no financial analysis of your company and industry for negotiations, no medical support, dues upwards of 3%-4%, etc...the list goes on.

Does ALPA have issues? Yes, but uneducated hatred of ALPA cannot be the only factor in what amounts to such a large career decision. If there was a better option than ALPA, I personally would vote for it, but going independent at the regional level is simply asking for failure.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would caution anyone before they buy into this "go independent" idea. Joe wants an independent union at Skywest and ASA, but refuses to face the reality that said union would not make enough money to survive.

I would caution you about putting words in my mouth.....I am on the fence about splitting off as I do like the ability to sue for DFR if ALPA does something that negatively affects our career...

I also want a union that can deliver a single list at Skywest Inc....ALPA won't do that....A single list on this property trumps ALPA membership....

Doesn't matter how much money ALPA provides if your flying is outsourced.....Something ALPA has never understood.....

A union the size of ASA takes in roughly a quarter million per year in dues revenue. One year of contract negotiations alone costs upward of a half million. How long was the last round of negotiations at ASA??? Keep in mind that the management team that chose to keep the pilots in such a long period of negotiations is the management team that Joe trusts to keep his quality of life the same without ALPA. Joe's only answer to this problem is that there would have to be some "belt tightening". Number-wise, the belt tightening would have to go so far as having a negotiating committee that flies the line full time (a great idea if you want a horrible contract), little to no legal support for negotiations or to fight grievances (which cost a great deal), little to no financial analysis of your company and industry for negotiations, no medical support, dues upwards of 3%-4%, etc...the list goes on.

Where to start....

1. Actually it was our side that caused negotiations to drag out so long...We could have had a deal much sooner but expectations were not managed....In 2002 when we started we could have taken the CMR rates and moved on....but some had grander visions....As a member of the CSC at the time I voiced my opinion that it was a mistake...

2. When I was on the CNC in 1998, I flew about 35 hours a month in addition to negotiating...It can be done....But now full time ALPA leave has become more popular....Pilots would be amazed at how much full time ALPA leave there is now....

3. ALPA isn't going to do squat for my "QOL" if my job is replaced...possibly by another ALPA member...Give it a rest....I am interested in job security first and foremost....If my QOL sucks, I will leave....ALPA can't protect a regional job.....

Does ALPA have issues? Yes, but uneducated hatred of ALPA cannot be the only factor in what amounts to such a large career decision. If there was a better option than ALPA, I personally would vote for it, but going independent at the regional level is simply asking for failure.

I am not "uneducated" about the issues or ALPA....I suspect I was in Herndon working as an ALPA volunteer long before you soloed.....I also don't "hate" ALPA....I just don't believe it is effective nor do I believe it has my best interests in mind....

ALPA has already failed all of us...Some of you just don't realize it yet....

 

[SaturnPilot]

I also want a union that can deliver a single list at Skywest Inc....ALPA won't do that....A single list on this property trumps ALPA membership....

ALPA can certainly do that.

Doesn't matter how much money ALPA provides if your flying is outsourced.....Something ALPA has never understood.....

an independent union will not solve this problem.

2. When I was on the CNC in 1998, I flew about 35 hours a month in addition to negotiating...It can be done....But now full time ALPA leave has become more popular....Pilots would be amazed at how much full time ALPA leave there is now....

flying during negotiations can certainly be done depending on how quick negotiations are moving. Even being on leave for only half of a month will still be too much cost for an independent regional union, however.

3. ALPA isn't going to do squat for my "QOL" if my job is replaced...possibly by another ALPA member...Give it a rest....I am interested in job security first and foremost....If my QOL sucks, I will leave....ALPA can't protect a regional job.....

another issue not solved by an independent union.

I am not "uneducated" about the issues or ALPA....I suspect I was in Herndon working as an ALPA volunteer long before you soloed.....I also don't "hate" ALPA....I just don't believe it is effective nor do I believe it has my best interests in mind....

I never called YOU uneducated, nor did I say YOU hated ALPA. The fact is many people cast career votes based on uneducated emotions regarding ALPA. I was referencing those people who vote emotionally in my post.

Thanks for volunteering before I soloed even though you have no idea how old I am or how long I have been flying. You can make assumptions regarding my flying experience as though that is the issue at hand here, or you can attempt to explain how your independent union will be able to function financially. Looking at the numbers, I don't see how it's possible.