NTSB Recommends Changes In Crew Sched., Comm Proced.

[§kyye Candy]

How is everyone going to feel when a 12 hour duty day results in more days at work and fewer days off?

Be careful what you wish for....

Any mention of pilot experience? We will probably get some more "recipe flying" out of this.....while the biggest problem - experience....is ignored.....

Exhaustion is more than just how many hours in a row one flies - it's how many circadian rhythm swaps you have in a given period of time, how long you are left standing and waiting for a shuttle to the hotel on your supposed "rest" periods, the quality of rest (crappy bed, stupid maids who can't read the schedule and show up in the middle of your sleep period, trains going by), how many days in a row you work, how often your schedule is mis-managed to the point of being jr. manned, commuting time, etc.

All of these things need to be factored in when considering fatigue levels. Maybe considering pay and benefits have been decreased ten fold, we should be looking at decreasing duty times to something more reasonable and managable.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

U bet! You know what I hope happens to Mr.RJDC (joe)? I hope he walks into his trailer really depressed about his girl leaving him for Mr.VPofsomething. He walks over to the cabinet to get a drink of scotch only to find his dogs head staring blankly back at him. He screeches like the little he biotch that he is and goes stumbling backwards onto the floor. Just then out of the corner of his eye he spots the pedophile living next door running naked at him from the waist down. Now folks, this is no ordinary pedophile this is a big redneck one. Hands the size of baby dolphins. Joe tries to scramble away only to get his fat head stomped on repeatedly until he blacks out. Finally Joe starts to come about several hours later with an extreme headache, vision blurred and very parched. He tries to move but realizes that he is tied up in the woods and his feet are missing!!!!

DUDE!!!! What kind of movies did you watch growing up. WOW!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/legaff/mann8-3.html

http://cf.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/backgr/NASA_TM_110404.pdf

The first link is a brief; whereas, the second is the full report conducted over a decade ago.

The only way to change any of this is to separate the FAA's safety oversight and give it to the NTSB or other entity. Until then, the FAA has a legal responsibility to both the passenger and the businesses.

 

[Long Time Gone]

U bet! You know what I hope happens to Mr.RJDC (joe)? I hope he walks into his trailer really depressed about his girl leaving him for Mr.VPofsomething.

That'll never happen. She's that large and bad looking.

 

[SSDD]

The one bad thing I've heard about this is that they want to count your commuting time as part of your duty time.

 

[flyzimex]

The one bad thing I've heard about this is that they want to count your commuting time as part of your duty time.

Well, I'm no commuter and probably I'm stupid, but why is that bad??

FZ

 

[§kyye Candy]

The one bad thing I've heard about this is that they want to count your commuting time as part of your duty time.

Sounds good to me - now all they need is a clause saying that you can't require duty time w/o paying for it, because sure as he!! nobody can afford to relocate based on 1) income and 2) the fact that some companies seem to change domiciles almost weekly.

 

[PCL_128]

An NTSB suggestion and $1 won't even buy you a cup of coffee anymore.

That's the real problem. The NTSB has become worthless. The FAA and the airlines completely ignore their recommendations. The government needs to fix the system. Time to get rid of NTSB recommendations and change them to NTSB decrees.

 

[PCL_128]

How is everyone going to feel when a 12 hour duty day results in more days at work and fewer days off?

We have a max 12-hour duty day at AirTran, and our average line is about 15-16 days off with some exceeding 19 days off. I'm guessing that's better than what most of your pilots get, Joey. In fact, I'm not guessing, because I hear your pilots b!tching in the hotel vans all the time about their 12 days off.

Any mention of pilot experience?

The Captain was highly experienced and a very good checkairman. The FO was new and was receiving IOE. I don't know what his experience prior to Pinnacle was, but since Pinnacle is such a festering hell hole, they can't exactly attract the highest levels of experience for new FOs. Not really a factor, though, as the CA was flying and making the decisions. The problem here wasn't experience, the problem was fatigue and pilot pushing. Two of the hallmarks of Pinnacle's bulls---.

 

[PCL_128]

U bet! You know what I hope happens to Mr.RJDC (joe)? I hope he walks into his trailer really depressed about his girl leaving him for Mr.VPofsomething. He walks over to the cabinet to get a drink of scotch only to find his dogs head staring blankly back at him. He screeches like the little he biotch that he is and goes stumbling backwards onto the floor. Just then out of the corner of his eye he spots the pedophile living next door running naked at him from the waist down. Now folks, this is no ordinary pedophile this is a big redneck one. Hands the size of baby dolphins. Joe tries to scramble away only to get his fat head stomped on repeatedly until he blacks out. Finally Joe starts to come about several hours later with an extreme headache, vision blurred and very parched. He tries to move but realizes that he is tied up in the woods and his feet are missing!!!!

That was just a work of art. :beer:

 

[BigMeat]

That was just a work of art. :beer:

Thanks PCL and Skyye Candy for the kind words

 

[CA1900]

That was just a work of art. :beer:

Yes, it was! :laugh:

BigMeat, we have to get together for beer and paintball again one of these days! :beer:

 

[Poahi]

... need is a clause saying that you can't require duty time w/o paying for it,

Then everyone would be commuting from the farthest point they can think of (or certainly the cheapest). It's a slippery slope.

Why not also include yard work, work in another profession, diaper changing, or anything else that requires you to be seated and awake.

What you do on your time off is your business. Getting to work rested has always been the pilot's responsibility.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I bet it is the 60+ guys that are complaining they need more rest! More time is needed to spend counting their money.

 

[Aviation Geek]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/14/60minutes/main3939721.shtml

This "60 Minutes" story on sleep was very interesting. It's only like 20 minutes but well worth the watch if you are interested in the direction sleep study is going.

The reality is the only reason schedules are built the way they are is to save the company money. Your health, their money. The corporation has just one responsibility: MAKE MONEY. Until rest costs them a significant amount of money; workers take control and say "enough is enough;" or regulators grow some and say "this has to end" it will not change.