LUV Will Grow Little Or None In 2009

[momalley81]

We at APA saw it for what it was (a transfer of wealth from junior to senior). We tried to stop the train-wreck but unfortunately didn’t have the political muscle.

APA President Lloyd Hill confided in SWAPA President Carl Kulwitsky that he hoped Age 60 would go away. Of course he will never admit that but I heard the account first hand.

Many APA reps have also told our SWAPA reps they wished the APA could have a good working relationship with AMR; just like SWAPA has with SWA management.

APA is a spineless no muscle union.

How do I know?

I am a former AA pilot now flying for SWA.

 

[waveflyer]

No, He's playing poker with the pilots. Wants to trade wages freezes for growth.

wage freezes for growth?

ummm....b-scales.....scope.....any of that ringing a bell? no legacy- especially AA has a right to critique anyone on any front, much less that one.

btw_ call it flame-but i hope the truth of that hurts your pride. AA and all legacy pilots had 2 servings of ego for every 1/4 serving of foresight-
You honestly didn't think your tradition of selling out the junior in new and creative ways wouldn't come back to bite you?

 

[JoeMerchant]

APA President Lloyd Hill confided in SWAPA President Carl Kulwitsky that he hoped Age 60 would go away. Of course he will never admit that but I heard the account first hand.

Many APA reps have also told our SWAPA reps they wished the APA could have a good working relationship with AMR; just like SWAPA has with SWA management.

APA is a spineless no muscle union.

How do I know?

I am a former AA pilot now flying for SWA.

You mean a union rep. lied? Say it ain't so......

 

[Skybus]

Millions RJones??? how did you come up with this figure? Perhaps you are overyly optomistic re: upcomming new contract??

 

[waveflyer]

Millions RJones??? how did you come up with this figure? Perhaps you are overyly optomistic re: upcomming new contract??

I'll keep my current contract and it'll cost me $1million.

Einstein answered when asked 'What's the most powerful force in the Universe?'

'Compound Interest'.

 

[nimtz]

adminstartion? What are ya, frickin' drunk? Those "clods" were going nowhere until ALPA gave them credibility. Have another beer, whackjob. uke:

HEY I CAN MAKE AN BS FACE MOTION TOO :crying:

That honestly is your best defense!?! I very sorry you feel that way cause it means you pay union dues for the equvalent of a limp dick (probably sop for you)...

Let me ask u a simple question was SWAPA pro or against age 65 before and during 2007? When you answer that and check your union dues statements from your paycheck in 2007 then feel free to critque. In the meantime, b!te me...

 

[nimtz]

The change to age 65 started with just one guy...and it grew from there.

Likewise, the age change back to age 60 will eventually start with one guy....

...Are you that guy? ...or are you just a whiner?

In your eyes I'm sure I'm just some punk kid, but given your previous posts I could care less. I've learned enough in my time to know that anyone that refers to themselves as from 'tejas' is a rod to be left alone at the bar regardless of a promise to buy a 'dollar' beer for you ...

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

AA767,

I have some more questions for you....The first one you ignored the first time I asked it...

1. Are you financially ready to retire at age 60?

2. If APA is opposed to this, why don't you just negotiate a mandatory age 60 retirement in your contract....Then you will get what you want....

3. Wasn't it the APA group that first negotiated the B scale?

I doubt you will answer these questions as you seem to ignore the tough questions that are thrown your way and prefer to lob anonymous attacks at others...

Merchant,

I read the stuff coming from you guys and it’s no wonder the industry and our profession is in its current tailspin. You really have no clue of the ominous impact for the entire industry you guys caused by the Age 65 ruling. Standby to watch the carnage you help cause unfold over the next few years as the industry goes through its massive downsizing.

Southwest was the leading group of pilots that got the ball rolling on 65 over a decade ago. I watched it happen and was involved in the fight from the beginning. To blame it on ICAO while your group whole-heartily supported the measure is a bunch of cowardliness. This measure would have never seen the light of day if it wasn’t for the initial and long-standing support of the Southwest pilots. It’s obvious you do not understand the political impact your group has on the industry.

To Momalley that said Lloyd Hill supported Age 60 is complete spin. Why don’t you try reading some of his campaign literature? I’ve talked to him myself many times on the subject. Besides, our membership was solidly against the self destructive proposal.

To answer your questions Merchant:

1) I was ready until Age 65 cost me an additional 3-5 years in the right seat at a 68% cap in pay.
The rules were changed in the middle of the game.

2) You really have no clue to negotiations and lawsuits do you?? If APA was to go against the Federal law of Age 65, the entire union would be subject to a massive and unwinnable litigation.

3) No APA wasn’t the first, AA was the first major airline to implement it on a large scale 25 years ago. Read the book “Hard Landing” if you want to know your history.

Now let me ask you again – given your leading position in the industry, what has SWAPA actually done to improve our profession over the last five years besides giving us all Age 65?? How's your contract negotiations coming along or are you too busy giving love fests to Herb?

It’s funny hear how spineless and weak APA is coming from a group of pilots that have done virtually nothing while leading the pack since 911. At least we had retirement and medical plans set-up to encourage guys to retire at Age 60.

I also had one of you jumpseating a couple of weeks ago and he was telling us all about how your new-hire classes are now mostly made up of the over 60 guys coming back to work. You do realize there is an impending lawsuit from the “over 60 guys” trying to get back their seniority. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[goahead]

Merchant,

I also had one of you jumpseating a couple of weeks ago and he was telling us all about how your new-hire classes are now mostly made up of the over 60 guys coming back to work. You do realize there is an impending lawsuit from the “over 60 guys” trying to get back their seniority. What a sad joke.


AA767AV8TOR

I'm assuming your talking about ASA and while I don't have a dog in this fight I can tell you that I haven't done OE on anyone over 30 in a long time.

 

[SkiFishFly]

I thought it started in Europe with ICAO changing the rules to allow age 65...

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Merchant,

I also had one of you jumpseating a couple of weeks ago and he was telling us all about how your new-hire classes are now mostly made up of the over 60 guys coming back to work. You do realize there is an impending lawsuit from the “over 60 guys” trying to get back their seniority. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

Bad info...We had one class of around 15 and there were a total of 21 who were interviewed and hired BUT a few were having problems getting a new medical. (If you have a waiver for any medical condition it's much easier to get renewed than to try to jump through the hoops with the FAA to get it back.) We did hire a few guys who took the lump sums elsewhere (Delta comes to mind!) and came over but they were all in their early 50's!

And by the way, AA767, One of your Kernal buddies over here who had a major hand in 65 is already on a push to go PaSt 65. Heard it straight from the horses mouth, SO maybe it all started with the Armed Services, the kindler gentler military should have never got away from "Blanket Parties" or "Code Reds" or whatever they wanna call them!!!.

I personally plan on retiring at 60 (or earlier) but I only have myself to blame for that if it doesn't happen!
KBB

 

[Patriot328]

Like I said, has SWAPA done anything to capitalize on their industry standing?? Have they improved your pay rates, retiree medical, increased pension benefits, or done anything about your worthless stock options?

In discussion now, and I bet we get a better deal than you will ever see in your lifetime.

I remember hearing the same quotes for UAL and DAL pilots when they got their contracts in 2000.

Careful with that ego scoreboard. It's a long fall.

 

[canyonblue]

HEY I CAN MAKE AN BS FACE MOTION TOO :crying:

That honestly is your best defense!?! I very sorry you feel that way cause it means you pay union dues for the equvalent of a limp dick (probably sop for you)...

Let me ask u a simple question was SWAPA pro or against age 65 before and during 2007? When you answer that and check your union dues statements from your paycheck in 2007 then feel free to critque. In the meantime, b!te me...

Come back when you're under .08. :beer:

 

[LuckyDad]

AA767
Quick question... if ICAO didnt really matter, how were ANY of the major airlines that have an international codeshare partner going to defend the position that it's safe to fly with a 60+ crew overseas, but not in the USA. I am not that familiar with AA, but do they have any international partners?
For the record, I was opposed to 65, but am not so shortsighted to believe it started or ended with SWAPA. Judging from your posts, I'd say there is enough hatred coming from you to spread it around a little more than just SWAPA...and by the way, the underlying jelousy is obvious.

 

[scoreboardII]

You really have no clue of the ominous impact for the entire industry you guys caused by the Age 65 ruling. What a sad joke.

AA767AV8TOR

You really live with your head in the sand don't you? Of course 65 is going to suck for 75% of all pilots, nobody discounts that. The difference is your goal is simply to point fingers and lay blame instead of dealing with it. It is a sad joke, only, your the punch line...