JetBlue defers delivery on 31 A320s

[General Lee]

If its all political, then B6 has this problem licked. We're doing McCain charters out the rear, flying the old man everywhere. H.Clinton is the senator from our home state. Now Obama is in UAL's corner I would imagine.

Good luck to all.

I don't think McCain or Clinton will win. (fingers crossed)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fubijaakr]

pottyboy,

There are some solvent airlines out here. Think hard, you may come up with one.

 

[Caveman]

You really thought that both DL and NWA lost $10 billion in the last quarter? You really thought that? You didn't read the part about it being a "paper" loss? You really thought we lost that much cash--both DL and NWA? Really? And we have failed to merge? How long do you think it takes? Failed? It supposedly takes 8-10 months, that is why the process needed to start early, so it could be done before the next administration gets into office. I think the Senate just announced that there wasn't any overlapping and failed to see any anti-competitive stance. The DOJ has to still approve it, and most in Congress or the Senate say it will most likely pass the scrutiny. I think you might work for Hillary Clinton's campaign on the side---you are good at making up s%$#. I am glad you like your chances. Enjoy Yonkers.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I should have known better than to get involved in a conversation with you again. My bad. Won't happen again. Have a nice life Private. Hopefully Kharma won't be too harsh with you. Adios.....

 

[General Lee]

I should have known better than to get involved in a conversation with you again. My bad. Won't happen again. Have a nice life Private. Hopefully Kharma won't be too harsh with you. Adios.....

Heck, you'll be back for more. No doubt. You have to think before you type, though. Kharma is bad to people who wish harm on others, and I do not. Talk to you soon.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jbucpt]

General,

you truly are an embarrassment to delta and your fellow delta pilots.



"he said this, he said that, and it still amounted to nothing."

 

[DIAMONDDD]

If only B6 would soon go out of business so's that the airline industry will finally turn things around and start rolling in dough again. C'mon guys. Fall on your swords!!!!

 

[brainhurts]

If only B6 would soon go out of business so's that the airline industry will finally turn things around and start rolling in dough again. C'mon guys. Fall on your swords!!!!

I know, those SWA guys are faultless for starting the LCC model that created the only airline that will survive, and it's all Jetblue's fault! Damn our founding fathers for even dreaming of capitalism where strong men can stand on their own accomplishments! We need what we have today! A bunch of old men who feel entitled to a socialistic establishment even though technology and their own greed has created a hugh pool of overqualified young pilots with thousands of hours of jet PIC who could (and would) take their jobs in a heartbeat. Stupid Jetblue.

 

[brainhurts]

Heck, you'll be back for more. No doubt. You have to think before you type, though. Kharma is bad to people who wish harm on others, and I do not. Talk to you soon.

Bye Bye--General Lee

\
General, if you look back at his quote, he understood the multi billion write down, and went on to rightly say that Delta lost in the hundreds of millions in the quarter. Delta is reacting just as Jetblue is reacting to try and be a player in the "last man standing" competition that is going on. Defering Airbus orders and keeping the 190 orders is their plan for now.

 

[clickclickboom]

Cmon guys cut the general a break all of us at jetblue know that if we lost in a year what delta did last quarter ( net of write downs) that we would be up $hits creek..

Nearly every semi competent poster here knows that alpa and near criminal management oversight has destroyed this profession.. NWA's UAL's DAL's problems were deep and far reaching long before the thought of jetblue or va was even a fart in the wind.

The lcc model has been the convenient excuse for legacy mismanagement and greed.. The saddest part is that there really are some pilots out there that just eat it right up with all of this " Non union shop destroying my profession crap" Please are you die hards truly that self centered or in this case naivete?

As you thump your chest about your degraded profession you happily accept the fact that your dues pay alpa letter lickers $200,000 per year and that is a low paying job !!

 

[BeachBummer]

http://www.break.com/index/shrimp-running-on-treadmill.html

after watching clickboom's tyson quotes found this one and thought every one else would like it too.... just strange.

 

[clickclickboom]

http://www.break.com/index/shrimp-running-on-treadmill.html

after watching clickboom's tyson quotes found this one and thought every one else would like it too.... just strange.

This week on E true hollywood story.. A shrimp runs on a treadmill the life story of mike tyson..

Yep that pretty much sums up his intelligence level

 

[waveflyer]

I know, those SWA guys are faultless for starting the LCC model that created the only airline that will survive, and it's all Jetblue's fault! Damn our founding fathers for even dreaming of capitalism where strong men can stand on their own accomplishments! We need what we have today! A bunch of old men who feel entitled to a socialistic establishment even though technology and their own greed has created a hugh pool of overqualified young pilots with thousands of hours of jet PIC who could (and would) take their jobs in a heartbeat. Stupid Jetblue.

that's some good sarcasm right there.
and right on.
you don't like guys taking jobs at these wages- then stop selling them out and get the RJ's back on the property--

 

[Andy]

Geesh, you'd think this financing is going to trash the stock by itself. No way! This is the best method available to repay existing bondholders $175M they have the option of forcing a repurchase on 7/15/08. Will the stock receive downward pressure for the 45 days they lend 45M shares to Morgan Stanley? - Yes - but once that is overwith, the stock reverts back to Jetblue. 7/15 is the cutoff, as the shares are returned to JBLU. JBLU stock presently has a $6. book value with all the cash they have.

Dude, you need to stick to mutual funds. JBLU stock is more likely to reach $1 before $10 - and I'm being generous. As for your estimate of $6/sh, I would suggest that's 'accountant retail value' (accountants are only slightly higher on slime scale than lawyers). Sales of assets in a distress sale will garner significantly less.
According to JBLU's last 10Q, they had $1.247B of debt due for the balance of 2008. Traditionally, JBLU's rolled over short term debt. However, the credit markets have pretty much seized up, so I would be willing to wager that JBLU's burned through a significant chunk of Lufthansa's $300M investment. Funny, LH bought JBLU stock at $7.27/sh in Dec 07.
If JBLU was in any kind of decent shape, they wouldn't be doing this 'innovative' death spiral financing. Lending shares so that the financier can short the stock? Talk about F'd up. Man, it's amazing how many joe 6pack sheeple will view this as a good deal. Reminds me of the guy in my old squadron who wanted to buy stock in a company that had declared ch 11 because it was cheap - NO, it was expensive; paying even a penny a share is a losing proposition.

 

[lowecur]

Dude, you need to stick to mutual funds. Dude! Dude! JBLU stock is more likely to reach $1 before $10 - and I'm being generous. You are truly a legend in your own mind. A really impotent dude! As for your estimate of $6/sh, I would suggest that's 'accountant retail value' You would suggest that it's accounting retail value? I thought I suggested that was the cash value of the stock?(accountants are only slightly higher on slime scale than lawyers). No, an FO who is only wet behind the ears in investing is at the top of the list. Sales of assets in a distress sale will garner significantly less. And when is that going to happen all knowing one? I would suggest you will be working for $30,000 salary at a discount broker before that happens.
According to JBLU's last 10Q, they had $1.247B of debt due for the balance of 2008. Traditionally, JBLU's rolled over short term debt. However, the credit markets have pretty much seized up, so I would be willing to wager that JBLU's burned through a significant chunk of Lufthansa's $300M investment. And? Funny, LH bought JBLU stock at $7.27/sh in Dec 07. And? Andy?
If JBLU was in any kind of decent shape, they wouldn't be doing this 'innovative' death spiral financing. You call it what you like Andy Panda, but Jetblue will be in the airline business much longer than you will, and many of the legacys. Perhaps, you should send your resume to them and see if they will hire you as the assistant to the assistant to the assistant to the CFO. I'm sure that may pay more than the $30,000 you'll get at E-trade....although not much! Lending shares so that the financier can short the stock? Talk about F'd up. Man, it's amazing how many joe 6pack sheeple will view this as a good deal. Reminds me of the guy in my old squadron are you a WAC? who wanted to buy stock in a company that had declared ch 11 because it was cheap - NO, it was expensive; paying even a penny a share is a losing proposition.

Thanks for the lesson in investing Andy Panda. Now when you reach my ripe old age of 60, and you've socked away enough money to buy and sell you 1000 times, then I'll listen. Now run along you twerp, and go drill a few glory holes in the restroom at SFO, and I'm sure someone will be by to fill them for you.

imp:​

 

[StopNTSing]

Thanks for the lesson in investing Andy Panda. Now when you reach my ripe old age of 60, and you've socked away enough money to buy and sell you 1000 times, then I'll listen. Now run along you twerp, and go drill a few glory holes in the restroom at SFO, and I'm sure someone will be by to fill them for you.

imp:​

Game, Set, and Match....Andy. :smash:

Is that really the best you could come up with, Lowecur?

 

[clickclickboom]

Now run along you twerp, and go drill a few glory holes in the restroom at SFO, and I'm sure someone will be by to fill them for you.

imp:​

I'm Sorry I had just to see that one more time!!!


http://www.origin-studio.com/d/360-6/GloryHole.jpg

 

[lowecur]

Game, Set, and Match....Andy. :smash:

Is that really the best you could come up with, Lowecur?

You have alot more pull than I thought, getting Gary to go back into SFO to meet your buddy Andy.

imp:​

 

[Andy]

Thanks for the lesson in investing Andy Panda. Now when you reach my ripe old age of 60, and you've socked away enough money to buy and sell you 1000 times, then I'll listen. Now run along you twerp, and go drill a few glory holes in the restroom at SFO, and I'm sure someone will be by to fill them for you.

For a 60 year old, you are a novice at financial analysis. Your ignorance is overshadowed by your hubris; a lethal combination for an investor. But then again, you're not an investor; you're a gambler. Big difference. Rather than indepth analysis, you rely on hunches.


Guys like you make investing easy for me; PT Barnum was spot on. I make a lot of money off of uniformed 'investors.'
Stick with the Jim Cramer school of investing; I prefer to take my lessons from Benjamin Graham and Jesse Livermore.

JBLU's a short to zero. Give it 12 months. And for those wishing to short JBLU, it's a less than $5 stock. Many brokerages won't allow you to short them; interactivebrokers.com will allow you to short it. I'd wait to see how the stock does in the short term, should oil continue to fall (I would expect oil to drop closer to $100, as there's currently excess production of ~600K barrels per day worldwide).
A safer play would be to buy put options on the stock with decently long dated strikes. Buying in the money strikes cuts down on IV. The Jan 09 $5 strikes, VYOMA, look like a decent play here.
I'm not currently playing shorts on airlines, as I'm short financials; I want to see oil take a decent dip, likely resulting in a dead cat bounce on airlines before shorting the airlines. And there are better shorts than JBLU.

 

[lowecur]

For a 60 year old, you are a novice at financial analysis. OK Your ignorance is overshadowed by your hubris; a lethal combination for an investor. But then again, you're not an investor; you're a gambler. Actually, I only have 10% of my investments in the stock market....so you're wrong on that hunch. Big difference. Rather than indepth analysis, you rely on hunches. As you age in the next 20 yrs, you will learn that reading a financial statement is no guaranty of success. There are too many variables in the world of investing to be that naive.

Guys like you make investing easy for me; PT Barnum was spot on. I make a lot of money off of uniformed 'investors.' You mean while I'm going long, you're going short? This type of investing needs to be stopped, and I've just written my Congressman.
Stick with the Jim Cramer school of investing; I prefer to take my lessons from Benjamin Graham and Jesse Livermore.

JBLU's a short to zero. Give it 12 months. Must be that death spiral deal, huh? I'll take that bet, and be back to discus it with you in 12. And for those wishing to short JBLU, it's a less than $5 stock. Many brokerages won't allow you to short them; interactivebrokers.com will allow you to short it. I'd wait to see how the stock does in the short term, should oil continue to fall (I would expect oil to drop closer to $100, as there's currently excess production of ~600K barrels per day worldwide).
A safer play would be to buy put options on the stock with decently long dated strikes. Buying in the money strikes cuts down on IV. The Jan 09 $5 strikes, VYOMA, look like a decent play here.
I'm not currently playing shorts on airlines, as I'm short financials; Don't have enough money? I'd lend you some, but my money's tied up in the restroom repair business. I want to see oil take a decent dip, likely resulting in a dead cat bounce on airlines before shorting the airlines. And there are better shorts than JBLU.

Next time I'm in SFO, let's do lunch. I'll have my people call your people. You can teach me more about hysteria investing.

imp:​

 

[bizicmo]

Andy how much longer do you expect you will be shorting financials. I am thinking many are near the bottom now. I guess I'm asking how much lower do you think they will go before they turn around.

 

[johnboy99]

[/quote][/html]

DOH! Sorry for the typo; it should read 21. I'd edit the title, but it no longer allows me to edit my original post.

IMHO, it's a good move on JBLU's part. This is a bad time to be taking delivery of additional aircraft. We're at the point in the industry where airlines have to raise fares just to break even. And raising those fares is going to result in less travelers. Less demand for seats.
I also think that the financing's a good call. It doesn't matter if they trash their stock price in order to raise $160M in the current credit environment.

Barger's making the right moves to ensure JBLU's long term survivability.

a significant chunk of Lufthansa's $300M investment. Funny, LH bought JBLU stock at $7.27/sh in Dec 07.
IfDude, you need to stick to mutual funds. JBLU stock is more likely to reach $1 before $10 - and I'm being generous. As for your estimate of $6/sh, I would suggest that's 'accountant retail value' (accountants are only slightly higher on slime scale than lawyers). Sales of assets in a distress sale will garner significantly less.
According to JBLU's last 10Q, they had $1.247B of debt due for the balance of 2008. Traditionally, JBLU's rolled over short term debt. However, the credit markets have pretty much seized up, so I would be willing to wager that JBLU's burned through JBLU was in any kind of decent shape, they wouldn't be doing this 'innovative' death spiral financing. Lending shares so that the financier can short the stock? Talk about F'd up. Man, it's amazing how many joe 6pack sheeple will view this as a good deal. Reminds me of the guy in my old squadron who wanted to buy stock in a company that had declared ch 11 because it was cheap - NO, it was expensive; paying even a penny a share is a losing proposition.

Andy,

Remember these post, you should you wrote both. You sound like a politician. Go back and reread your post from this thread. More than once you contradicted yourself. Just pointing out what you wrote. WHICH IS IT. If you want to talk about death spiral financing who is UAL merging with this week????

 

[Dizel8]

FWIW, Tilton better start getting his horsemanure together, otherwise UAL could be facing a PAA scenario, slowly selling off assets while hoping for a turnaround.

But honestly, except for the proverbial few, we are all up the proverbial creek!

 

[BeachBummer]

I'm Sorry I had just to see that one more time!!!


http://www.origin-studio.com/d/360-6/GloryHole.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQfrfMeBc4o
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!
I am a BANANA!

 

[The Victors]

I will tell you.

It is a fact that VA has only been operating since August of last year. It is a fact that many (majority?) of the pilots that work for VA are previous ALPA members, who by no choice of their own, found themselves unemployed in a job market of very few employers. It is a fact that VA is growing as a result of investors believing in the marketing and the product. It is a fact that VA has less than twenty airplanes. It is a fact that every airline be it ALPA or other, started out as a non-union entity.

Most importantly, it is a fact that is pathetic that you blame your contractual woes on ALPA members who have lost jobs and are just starting to get their lives back together, without giving them the benefit of time to see what can be accomplished. Unbelievable.

Skipper

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: "Investors believing in the Marketing" Right. It's ONE investor's wet dream to stroke his massive ego.

 

[BeachBummer]

But honestly, except for the proverbial few, we are all up the proverbial creek!

Just like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P7E2_pZOxI&feature=related


ah i gotta lay off the booze

 

[The Victors]

Idiots.

All they have to do is raise fares... but nooooooooooo.

AT, JBLU, SW, wake up and raise fares.

And don't waste your time flaming me SWers. I've already heard the song-and-dance that hedging is part of your competitive business practices... yeah, that's why your company borrowed $600 mil. We'll see if those hedge work when oil drops to $60, which it will.

They can't raise fares, idiot, because they have to match the fares set by va and allegiant because those "professionals" are working for pennies.

 

[Dizel8]

Yesyouworry,

Hate to tell you, but the legacies are pretty good at faresales as well!

 

[crxpilot]

They can't raise fares, idiot, because they have to match the fares set by va and allegiant because those "professionals" are working for pennies.

Ahh Victors.............just when I think you may have an ounce of intelligence, you open up your piehole and remove all doubt. :smash:

 

[Andy]

Andy how much longer do you expect you will be shorting financials. I am thinking many are near the bottom now. I guess I'm asking how much lower do you think they will go before they turn around.

The credit markets are starting to lock up again. The Fed had ~$800B of assets available to them; they've thrown most of it at the credit crisis by swapping their govt treasuries for non-gov paper from the financials. We're very close to a tipping point. It ain't looking pretty.
On the financials, talk of LEH in deep trouble is intensifying. I think that that they're getting ready to do a Bear Stearns, but without a white knight to save them - there are no other institutions with a strong enough balance sheet to save them.
WFC's got a ton of 2d mortgages in their portfolio; most of which is from CA. All of that paper's essentially a zero.
FED's balance sheet is a walking disaster. They're a repeat of DSL, only a few months later.

 

[Andy]

Andy,

Remember these post, you should you wrote both. You sound like a politician. Go back and reread your post from this thread. More than once you contradicted yourself. Just pointing out what you wrote. WHICH IS IT. If you want to talk about death spiral financing who is UAL merging with this week????

You're confusing the survival of a company with the underlying stock. Let's look at UAL, NWAC, DAL pre-BK stock. None of that stock survived; the companies survived. Stop placing importance on an airline's stock price. While there are likely to be some dead cat bounces on the way down, just about every airline (save Southwest) is a short to zero. By zero, I consider anything below $1/sh not worth the risk.

Barger's raising as much cash as is possible to weather the storm. I also wrote the first quote prior to reading the terms of the convertible offering.
I have never before seen a company give out a ton of their stock in advance so that the financier can short the stock and then pay back the company at a future date with replacement stock. 38M shares represents ~15% of the outstanding and will require distribution of ~500K shares/day in order to dump the entire amount over 90 days. That's a serious drag on the stock price.
I also posted the first comment prior to glancing at JBLU's 10Q.

As for UAUA, they are a clear short to zero. I'd like to see UAUA do a death spiral financing (look it up in Wiki) convertible bond; they could use the cash.