JetBlue defers delivery on 31 A320s

[Joblu]

No you just get whatever management throws down your throat, like those impressive 190 payrates!


While I'm no alpa fan, it certainly is better than taking my chances without some kind of protection on the property!
And if that's so, then why are you guys talking JBPA?

737

Granted the 190 rates are not impressive. JBPA is being talked about for mainly job/merger protection along with pay and benefit improvements along the way. I never said we are perfect but when some tool calls us non-union wage cutters I think he/she would get their facts straight.

In comparison to wages look at LCC's E190 rates that until recently was ALPA.

LCC:

FO 41.00/hr until cap at year 6 at 52.00.
CA 79.00/hr until cap at year 10 at 95.00.

B6

FO 47.00/hr until cap at year 12 at 67.00.
CA 80.00/hr until cap at year 12 at 101.00.

Same equipment. The only difference one is a unionized legacy and the other a non-union wage cutter as one called it.

Get my drift?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Disingenuous. How about a comparison of narrow body legacy Captain rates BEFORE B6 to B6 rates.

That's where the rubber meets the road.

 

[waveflyer]

you're blaming jetblue for the legacies payrates? Even i don't do that. At least JBlu didn't farm out their E190's to the lowest bidding "regional"

The legacies and scope are the reasons you can find sufficient numbers willing to fly for that. I'll say it til i'm BLU in the face- I can talk- if you fly for a legacy- you've got NO ROOM. Just shut it- you sold out long before any startup did. Sorry your policies are now biting you on the a$$- but maybe you should have looked beyond the next contract to the long term affects of SCOPE

B-scales are where the rubber meets the road-- and scope is the skid marks.

 

[tzskipper]

You tell me.

I will tell you.

It is a fact that VA has only been operating since August of last year. It is a fact that many (majority?) of the pilots that work for VA are previous ALPA members, who by no choice of their own, found themselves unemployed in a job market of very few employers. It is a fact that VA is growing as a result of investors believing in the marketing and the product. It is a fact that VA has less than twenty airplanes. It is a fact that every airline be it ALPA or other, started out as a non-union entity.

Most importantly, it is a fact that is pathetic that you blame your contractual woes on ALPA members who have lost jobs and are just starting to get their lives back together, without giving them the benefit of time to see what can be accomplished. Unbelievable.

Skipper

 

[Cardinal]

that ugly chick that wears the "Women Fly" hat that used to be in the safety department and got booted to go on line or what?

ROFL and wiping away the tears! She's everywhere!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

 

[Mamma]

I will tell you.

It is a fact that VA has only been operating since August of last year. It is a fact that many (majority?) of the pilots that work for VA are previous ALPA members, who by no choice of their own, found themselves unemployed in a job market of very few employers. It is a fact that VA is growing as a result of investors believing in the marketing and the product. It is a fact that VA has less than twenty airplanes. It is a fact that every airline be it ALPA or other, started out as a non-union entity.

Most importantly, it is a fact that is pathetic that you blame your contractual woes on ALPA members who have lost jobs and are just starting to get their lives back together, without giving them the benefit of time to see what can be accomplished. Unbelievable.

Skipper

It is a fact that you guys are bleeding like a stuck pig. How long can you keep this up?

 

[tzskipper]

It is a fact that you guys are bleeding like a stuck pig. How long can you keep this up?

I have no idea how long VA will be around.

From what I can tell, VA's quarterly loss (for their first quarter, I think) was large, mostly due to the "fact" that they only generated revenue for about 2/3's of the quarter, while they incurred a full quarter's worth of expenses (payroll, facilities, a/c lease payments, ect.), so it won't be clear. Truthfully though, there are other, larger companies, that have bigger issues than VA faces.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

This slowdown is why the FO position shouldn't be sold out for a quick upgrade. Not everyone can be a captain real quick- but now you're stuck trying to figure out how to negotiate higher FO wages when you're in a downturn....

Waiting patiently for the day when anyone in the airlines thinks long term. . .

(But if it's too much for mgmt, maybe i could expect pilots to...??) (That's a hint for VA and LCC, btw)

What he said!!

 

[Mamma]

I have no idea how long VA will be around.

From what I can tell, VA's quarterly loss (for their first quarter, I think) was large, mostly due to the "fact" that they only generated revenue for about 2/3's of the quarter, while they incurred a full quarter's worth of expenses (payroll, facilities, a/c lease payments, ect.), so it won't be clear. Truthfully though, there are other, larger companies have bigger issues than VA faces.

I think VA's biggest problem is fuel coupled with no hedges. Another problem is Alaska, SWA and JB matching or going lower on VA's low introductary fares. This will not allow VA to raise fares and make a profit. Not a good time to start up. I know Alaska saturated the SEA-LA/SFO market in response to VA. They added many more flights and matched the intro fares. I am pretty sure Alaska is bleeding but they can bleed for a lot longer with over a billion in cash in the bank.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I think VA's biggest problem is fuel coupled with no hedges. Another problem is Alaska, SWA and JB matching or going lower on VA's low introductary fares. This will not allow VA to raise fares and make a profit. Not a good time to start up. I know Alaska saturated the SEA-LA/SFO market in response to VA. They added many more flights and matched the intro fares. I am pretty sure Alaska is bleeding but they can bleed for a lot longer with over a billion in cash in the bank.

Also should point out that Alaska has the best fuel hedges in place, second only to SWA. And, as you noted, they have a large cash stash in the bank, probably the largest of any carrier, as a % of revenue or a % of average expenses.

Can definitely outlast VA, unless investors are willing to a 'money losing' venture.

PD

 

[whymeworry?]

Idiots.

All they have to do is raise fares... but nooooooooooo.

AT, JBLU, SW, wake up and raise fares.

And don't waste your time flaming me SWers. I've already heard the song-and-dance that hedging is part of your competitive business practices... yeah, that's why your company borrowed $600 mil. We'll see if those hedge work when oil drops to $60, which it will.

 

[Schwanker]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

PRICELESS! I guess I didn't look deep enough.

Schwanker

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Jetblue pilots aren't really janitors, are they?

 

[bravodude]

Idiots.

All they have to do is raise fares... but nooooooooooo.

AT, JBLU, SW, wake up and raise fares.

And don't waste your time flaming me SWers. I've already heard the song-and-dance that hedging is part of your competitive business practices... yeah, that's why your company borrowed $600 mil. We'll see if those hedge work when oil drops to $60, which it will.

First of all if fuel goes to $60 we will still make money since we are hedged at $51. Second if fuel does ever get that low we will be making more money then we would know what to do with. Why would we want to raise fares so !d!ots like you could prosper I think not

 

[aerobato]

Is that all you got? A personal attack?

Better:

1. Get your facts straight.
2. Dust off your resume.

I guess you could go over to another non-Union wage cutter...VA's hiring.

You are clueless. This is good management being proactive about the state of the industry. Or in your opinion, should they wait until all of the money is gone and say "Holy Sh*T" what do we do now?

You should get your facts straight.

 

[737 Pylt]

First of all if fuel goes to $60 we will still make money since we are hedged at $51. Second if fuel does ever get that low we will be making more money then we would know what to do with. Why would we want to raise fares so !d!ots like you could prosper I think not

And to think somewhere out there a village is calling all over the place looking for you!

737

 

[boomlrd]

737 Pylot, I just checked out Tanker Clown's "really cool website", all I can say is SUPER TOOL! I have have seen some clowns before, but that guy takes the cake. He needs a Myspace page for the young girls, that would top it off!

 

[lowecur]

What's all the hubbub?

Geesh, you'd think this financing is going to trash the stock by itself. No way! This is the best method available to repay existing bondholders $175M they have the option of forcing a repurchase on 7/15/08. Will the stock receive downward pressure for the 45 days they lend 45M shares to Morgan Stanley? - Yes - but once that is overwith, the stock reverts back to Jetblue. 7/15 is the cutoff, as the shares are returned to JBLU. JBLU stock presently has a $6. book value with all the cash they have.

Look folks, this is a game of musical chairs/russian roulette. Airlines are going to die here because there is no financing to save them, and unions want to take a wait and see attitude on consolidation. The window of opportunity for consolidation for the weakest is gone, and capitulation is just a matter of time.

Oil should not get too much worse or actually could retreat to $100 per bbl in the next few months if people can't afford to take a summer vacations and stay home. Barring a major catastrophe Hurricane in the Gulf in Aug, Sept, or Oct - oil prices should be below $100 after those 3 months and on into 2009.

By this time next year stagflation and recession will be in full bloom as our politicians tap dance and talk rather than offer any hard ideas on what we need to fix things. What a mess!

Incidently, the deferral of 320's is not surprising. Expect more to go out the door for sale if a capitulation timeframe for this industry is not clear. The 190's are the perfect a/c for these times, and B6 will continue to bring them on-board, and plug them into routes that will continue to thin out over the next 24 months.

imp: ​

 

[Fubijaakr]

This is management being proactive...

To repeat what I said in the LCC section...At least B6 and AAI aren't trying to expand like those knuckleheads at VA.

Gotta give them props for that.

 

[johnboy99]

Mr. Fubijackmeoff,

Just curious as to what revenue generating cash cow you work for. You seem to bash alot of airlines but unless you fly boxes me thinks you might be in trouble too.

 

[General Lee]

And from the friendly people at FITCH......

Geesh, you'd think this financing is going to trash the stock by itself. No way! This is the best method available to repay existing bondholders $175M they have the option of forcing a repurchase on 7/15/08. Will the stock receive downward pressure for the 45 days they lend 45M shares to Morgan Stanley? - Yes - but once that is overwith, the stock reverts back to Jetblue. 7/15 is the cutoff, as the shares are returned to JBLU. JBLU stock presently has a $6. book value with all the cash they have.

Look folks, this is a game of musical chairs/russian roulette. Airlines are going to die here because there is no financing to save them, and unions want to take a wait and see attitude on consolidation. The window of opportunity for consolidation for the weakest is gone, and capitulation is just a matter of time.

Oil should not get too much worse or actually could retreat to $100 per bbl in the next few months if people can't afford to take a summer vacations and stay home. Barring a major catastrophe Hurricane in the Gulf in Aug, Sept, or Oct - oil prices should be below $100 after those 3 months and on into 2009.

By this time next year stagflation and recession will be in full bloom as our politicians tap dance and talk rather than offer any hard ideas on what we need to fix things. What a mess!

Incidently, the deferral of 320's is not surprising. Expect more to go out the door for sale if a capitulation timeframe for this industry is not clear. The 190's are the perfect a/c for these times, and B6 will continue to bring them on-board, and plug them into routes that will continue to thin out over the next 24 months.

imp: ​

Press ReleaseSource: Fitch Ratings

Fitch Rates JetBlue's Convertible Debentures 'CCC-/RR6'; Outlook Negative
Friday May 30, 4:22 pm ET
CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Fitch Ratings has assigned a rating of 'CCC-/RR6' to JetBlue Airways Corp.'s (JBLU) newly-issued $175 million in convertible debentures. The debentures, issued in a two-part offering, each with a 5.5% coupon, mature in 2038. JBLU may redeem the Series A debentures beginning in October 2013 and the Series B debentures beginning in October 2015. The conversion price for the Series A debentures is $4.53, while the conversion price for the Series B debentures is $4.44. JBLU will deposit cash in an escrow account equal to the first six interest payments for each series of debentures. Net proceeds from the debentures will be used to repay JBLU's outstanding 3.5% convertible notes due 2033.

The Rating Outlook for JBLU is Negative.


Fitch's ratings on JBLU reflect the dramatic run-up in jet fuel costs and growing evidence of a softening revenue outlook that will likely drive larger losses and weakened free cash flow during the remainder of 2008. Although the $300 million equity investment by Germany's Deutsche Lufthansa AG helped boost JBLU's liquidity position in the first quarter, Fitch expects cash balances to remain under pressure over the next several months as JBLU and the other U.S. airlines continue to trim unprofitable capacity in the face of unsustainably high jet fuel prices. While JBLU's fleet plan flexibility provides some opportunity to manage capacity growth lower in 2008 and 2009, additional cash-raising options are limited, and the carrier's liquidity cushion will likely be eroded somewhat as operating losses continue and debt maturities are met without the benefit of positive free cash flow.




With oil this high, it is all about who can keep as much cash on hand to survive this. Airlines that go BK may not be able to find the DIP financing to get out of it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Caveman]

The Rating Outlook for JBLU is Negative.


Fitch's ratings on JBLU reflect the dramatic run-up in jet fuel costs and growing evidence of a softening revenue outlook that will likely drive larger losses and weakened free cash flow during the remainder of 2008. Although the $300 million equity investment by Germany's Deutsche Lufthansa AG helped boost JBLU's liquidity position in the first quarter, Fitch expects cash balances to remain under pressure over the next several months as JBLU and the other U.S. airlines continue to trim unprofitable capacity in the face of unsustainably high jet fuel prices. While JBLU's fleet plan flexibility provides some opportunity to manage capacity growth lower in 2008 and 2009, additional cash-raising options are limited, and the carrier's liquidity cushion will likely be eroded somewhat as operating losses continue and debt maturities are met without the benefit of positive free cash flow.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You could substitute any airline name in that opinion and it would be an equally true statement. Not exactly rocket science.

Here's my opinion:

1. B6 has about a billion in cash.

2. We started the quarter breaking even. What was DAL? Even if I accept the $6.7B spin you guys were still upside down hundreds of millions of dollars.

3. Our proactive management has axed the new hotel, deferred deliveries and raised new operating capital in the last couple of months. DAL has tried to merge and failed, so far.

Compared to a lot of other carriers we are treading water and conserving our cash. I like our chances better than most.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Airlines that go BK may not be able to find the DIP financing to get out of it.

Yeah it will be a real shame when Delta liquidates.

 

[General Lee]

Yeah it will be a real shame when Delta liquidates.

We will be the last one before Southwest if that is the case. It's all about the cash, and we will have a lot more than most after the NWA acquistion. If we liquidate, get ready to ride the Shame Train because most airlines will be grounded already. Bye Frank.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You could substitute any airline name in that opinion and it would be an equally true statement. Not exactly rocket science.

Here's my opinion:

1. B6 has about a billion in cash.

2. We started the quarter breaking even. What was DAL? Even if I accept the $6.7B spin you guys were still upside down hundreds of millions of dollars.

3. Our proactive management has axed the new hotel, deferred deliveries and raised new operating capital in the last couple of months. DAL has tried to merge and failed, so far.

Compared to a lot of other carriers we are treading water and conserving our cash. I like our chances better than most.

You really thought that both DL and NWA lost $10 billion in the last quarter? You really thought that? You didn't read the part about it being a "paper" loss? You really thought we lost that much cash--both DL and NWA? Really? And we have failed to merge? How long do you think it takes? Failed? It supposedly takes 8-10 months, that is why the process needed to start early, so it could be done before the next administration gets into office. I think the Senate just announced that there wasn't any overlapping and failed to see any anti-competitive stance. The DOJ has to still approve it, and most in Congress or the Senate say it will most likely pass the scrutiny. I think you might work for Hillary Clinton's campaign on the side---you are good at making up s%$#. I am glad you like your chances. Enjoy Yonkers.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

While JBLU's fleet plan flexibility provides some opportunity to manage capacity growth lower in 2008 and 2009, additional cash-raising options are limited, and the carrier's liquidity cushion will likely be eroded somewhat as operating losses continue and debt maturities are met without the benefit of positive free cash flow. Jetblue has Live TV on the market. It's worth has probably dropped considerably as the US aviation market remains in flux at this point in time, although picking up CAL was a coup. It's my feeling that Jetblue has at least a year or two viability over many of the legacy's, and at least that over AirTran. They will probably move another 10-20 320's before the end of the year to offset the new 190's for 2008 and 09, and their strong cash flow 1st Q was not mentioned by Fitch.

Also, Lufthansa may consider another investment if they see opportunity for Jetblue on the horizon, and their survival is at stake. By that time regulators may have softened on foreign ownership. They can still add 30% more stock to comply with present regulations (I always get this confused). I know controlling interest can't go over 25%, so they may elect to buy non-voting Preferred Stock to skirt the rule.



With oil this high, it is all about who can keep as much cash on hand to survive this. Airlines that go BK may not be able to find the DIP financing to get out of it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Remember what the Feds did for Chrysler. If they feel Nat'l security is at stake, they will step in for DIP financing for the remaining carriers.

imp:​

 

[General Lee]

Remember what the Feds did for Chrysler. If they feel Nat'l security is at stake, they will step in for DIP financing for the remaining carriers.

imp:​

Sure, but not every carrier. They will see what is neded for possible MAC lift, and decide on who they should save. It is all political, and some airlines will last longer, and they will ge the bailout if there is one. Right now, it is all about who has enough cash to survive this thing.

I agree about LiveTV. That is a great asset. A lot of airlines are NOT spending money to continue IFE, but getting CAL to agree to some was good for them. I don't remember how many planes will get it, but I think they need it for the transcons. Frontier was a customer, and now they are in BK, so they may try to lower that cost or they may get rid of that service if it is too expensive. They may unfortunately not come out of BK too if they can't get the DIP financing. As I said before, some airlines are stopping all the frills, and I just read that USAir may stop all inflight movies.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[zkmayo]

Sure, but not every carrier. They will see what is neded for possible MAC lift, and decide on who they should save. It is all political, and some airlines will last longer, and they will ge the bailout if there is one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

If its all political, then B6 has this problem licked. We're doing McCain charters out the rear, flying the old man everywhere. H.Clinton is the senator from our home state. Now Obama is in UAL's corner I would imagine.

Good luck to all.

 

[737 Pylt]

737 Pylot, I just checked out Tanker Clown's "really cool website", all I can say is SUPER TOOL! I have have seen some clowns before, but that guy takes the cake. He needs a Myspace page for the young girls, that would top it off!

boomlrd:
LMFAO!!
You should see just how popular he is with his squad mates!!!:blush: :laugh:

737