JetBlue defers delivery on 31 A320s

[Joblu]

No you just get whatever management throws down your throat, like those impressive 190 payrates!


While I'm no alpa fan, it certainly is better than taking my chances without some kind of protection on the property!
And if that's so, then why are you guys talking JBPA?

737

Granted the 190 rates are not impressive. JBPA is being talked about for mainly job/merger protection along with pay and benefit improvements along the way. I never said we are perfect but when some tool calls us non-union wage cutters I think he/she would get their facts straight.

In comparison to wages look at LCC's E190 rates that until recently was ALPA.

LCC:

FO 41.00/hr until cap at year 6 at 52.00.
CA 79.00/hr until cap at year 10 at 95.00.

B6

FO 47.00/hr until cap at year 12 at 67.00.
CA 80.00/hr until cap at year 12 at 101.00.

Same equipment. The only difference one is a unionized legacy and the other a non-union wage cutter as one called it.

Get my drift?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Disingenuous. How about a comparison of narrow body legacy Captain rates BEFORE B6 to B6 rates.

That's where the rubber meets the road.

 

[waveflyer]

you're blaming jetblue for the legacies payrates? Even i don't do that. At least JBlu didn't farm out their E190's to the lowest bidding "regional"

The legacies and scope are the reasons you can find sufficient numbers willing to fly for that. I'll say it til i'm BLU in the face- I can talk- if you fly for a legacy- you've got NO ROOM. Just shut it- you sold out long before any startup did. Sorry your policies are now biting you on the a$$- but maybe you should have looked beyond the next contract to the long term affects of SCOPE

B-scales are where the rubber meets the road-- and scope is the skid marks.

 

[tzskipper]

You tell me.

I will tell you.

It is a fact that VA has only been operating since August of last year. It is a fact that many (majority?) of the pilots that work for VA are previous ALPA members, who by no choice of their own, found themselves unemployed in a job market of very few employers. It is a fact that VA is growing as a result of investors believing in the marketing and the product. It is a fact that VA has less than twenty airplanes. It is a fact that every airline be it ALPA or other, started out as a non-union entity.

Most importantly, it is a fact that is pathetic that you blame your contractual woes on ALPA members who have lost jobs and are just starting to get their lives back together, without giving them the benefit of time to see what can be accomplished. Unbelievable.

Skipper

 

[Cardinal]

that ugly chick that wears the "Women Fly" hat that used to be in the safety department and got booted to go on line or what?

ROFL and wiping away the tears! She's everywhere!

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

 

[Mamma]

I will tell you.

It is a fact that VA has only been operating since August of last year. It is a fact that many (majority?) of the pilots that work for VA are previous ALPA members, who by no choice of their own, found themselves unemployed in a job market of very few employers. It is a fact that VA is growing as a result of investors believing in the marketing and the product. It is a fact that VA has less than twenty airplanes. It is a fact that every airline be it ALPA or other, started out as a non-union entity.

Most importantly, it is a fact that is pathetic that you blame your contractual woes on ALPA members who have lost jobs and are just starting to get their lives back together, without giving them the benefit of time to see what can be accomplished. Unbelievable.

Skipper

It is a fact that you guys are bleeding like a stuck pig. How long can you keep this up?

 

[tzskipper]

It is a fact that you guys are bleeding like a stuck pig. How long can you keep this up?

I have no idea how long VA will be around.

From what I can tell, VA's quarterly loss (for their first quarter, I think) was large, mostly due to the "fact" that they only generated revenue for about 2/3's of the quarter, while they incurred a full quarter's worth of expenses (payroll, facilities, a/c lease payments, ect.), so it won't be clear. Truthfully though, there are other, larger companies, that have bigger issues than VA faces.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

This slowdown is why the FO position shouldn't be sold out for a quick upgrade. Not everyone can be a captain real quick- but now you're stuck trying to figure out how to negotiate higher FO wages when you're in a downturn....

Waiting patiently for the day when anyone in the airlines thinks long term. . .

(But if it's too much for mgmt, maybe i could expect pilots to...??) (That's a hint for VA and LCC, btw)

What he said!!

 

[Mamma]

I have no idea how long VA will be around.

From what I can tell, VA's quarterly loss (for their first quarter, I think) was large, mostly due to the "fact" that they only generated revenue for about 2/3's of the quarter, while they incurred a full quarter's worth of expenses (payroll, facilities, a/c lease payments, ect.), so it won't be clear. Truthfully though, there are other, larger companies have bigger issues than VA faces.

I think VA's biggest problem is fuel coupled with no hedges. Another problem is Alaska, SWA and JB matching or going lower on VA's low introductary fares. This will not allow VA to raise fares and make a profit. Not a good time to start up. I know Alaska saturated the SEA-LA/SFO market in response to VA. They added many more flights and matched the intro fares. I am pretty sure Alaska is bleeding but they can bleed for a lot longer with over a billion in cash in the bank.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I think VA's biggest problem is fuel coupled with no hedges. Another problem is Alaska, SWA and JB matching or going lower on VA's low introductary fares. This will not allow VA to raise fares and make a profit. Not a good time to start up. I know Alaska saturated the SEA-LA/SFO market in response to VA. They added many more flights and matched the intro fares. I am pretty sure Alaska is bleeding but they can bleed for a lot longer with over a billion in cash in the bank.

Also should point out that Alaska has the best fuel hedges in place, second only to SWA. And, as you noted, they have a large cash stash in the bank, probably the largest of any carrier, as a % of revenue or a % of average expenses.

Can definitely outlast VA, unless investors are willing to a 'money losing' venture.

PD

 

[whymeworry?]

Idiots.

All they have to do is raise fares... but nooooooooooo.

AT, JBLU, SW, wake up and raise fares.

And don't waste your time flaming me SWers. I've already heard the song-and-dance that hedging is part of your competitive business practices... yeah, that's why your company borrowed $600 mil. We'll see if those hedge work when oil drops to $60, which it will.

 

[Schwanker]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

PRICELESS! I guess I didn't look deep enough.

Schwanker

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'm searching for the silver lining in this announcement...

....Ok..got it!

Fewer airplanes for the pilots to clean after every flight.

AThankYouVeryMuch!

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Jetblue pilots aren't really janitors, are they?

 

[bravodude]

Idiots.

All they have to do is raise fares... but nooooooooooo.

AT, JBLU, SW, wake up and raise fares.

And don't waste your time flaming me SWers. I've already heard the song-and-dance that hedging is part of your competitive business practices... yeah, that's why your company borrowed $600 mil. We'll see if those hedge work when oil drops to $60, which it will.

First of all if fuel goes to $60 we will still make money since we are hedged at $51. Second if fuel does ever get that low we will be making more money then we would know what to do with. Why would we want to raise fares so !d!ots like you could prosper I think not