A new way for ALPA to collect dues

[PCL_128]

....that's a waste of time....LEC resolutions rarely go very far if it doesn't jive with the National agenda...even you know that...

Look, Short Bus, the only reason you can't get anything past the LEC level is because you have the political acumen of a walnut. Learn how to play well with others and maybe you'll have more success.

Besides the legacy MECs are not affected by this stupid move....thus it will likely pass....

The legacy MECs are now in the minority. The B-carriers have the majority within ALPA. Your wet dream has come true. Use it to your advantage and stop whining like a little girl.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I was talking about past Presidents. I'm aware of the other officers pay. Read my post more closely before commenting.

ALPA has only one President the rest are Vice Presidents. Think before you spout off. Get informed.

This is what you wrote:

It still pisses me off that Prater, and all other Pres', make the money they make while they have no problem with newhires making what they make. I believe unionism means protecting all, not just some.

Your post implies that you believe incorrectly. Either post clearly or get informed.... your choice...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The ALPA cheerleaders are working overtime.....Give them a raise Herndon and take it out of my paycheck.....

:laugh:

You'll be thrilled, gleeful and can relish the thought...

ALPA furloughed staffers today....

Happy as you can be...

 

[TurboAWD]

So let's say you put 10% in to your 401k. So, you pay 2% (1.95%, actually) to the union. That is an extra 0.2% in dues, right?

If pilots got this fired up when the gov't makes laws or court ruling to restrict their ability to strike, we would probably be the rich fat cats everyone thinks we are. Ditto voting for pro-labor candidates instead of the "conservatives" that pilots seem to favor (since they all think they are "upper class".

I really need to start looking for a new career. Between energy prices and the fact that the average U.S. airline pilot can't see beyond their next paycheck, this "career" is doomed.

Turbo

 

[trainer8]

Your math is incorrect. A $2,500 contribution from a $50,000 gross income is a 5% employee contribution. But that's not the point anyway. The point was that your retirement account is not a factor in the dues, your gross income is.

Yes, my math was wrong. And, I understand your point about gross income. The point is, if this goes through, THERE IS LESS GROSS INCOME in my bank account because ALPA took it. (if I was an ALPA member)

Again, VOTE IT DOWN.

 

[Ocity]

I'm no fan of this either, but let's be honest. You can thank one of those grey haired, yellow lanyarded union busters known as USAPA next time you see them. They stripped 10mil a year away from the real union.

That's just one small reason why "union busting' is considered a scab activity.

It's USAPA that is reaching into your collective pockets...not ALPA.

 

[eaglesview]

As was stated earlier the legacy carriers are now the minority at good ole ALPA. In my opinion this is one of many problems for us legacy ALPA members. Losing 10 mil a year in dues falls squarely on the shoulders of ALPA national. If a vote comes to my airline I will vote to dump ALPA. This after 19 years of membership.

 

[PCL_128]

As was stated earlier the legacy carriers are now the minority at good ole ALPA. In my opinion this is one of many problems for us legacy ALPA members. Losing 10 mil a year in dues falls squarely on the shoulders of ALPA national. If a vote comes to my airline I will vote to dump ALPA. This after 19 years of membership.

And as you know, you would be in the distinct minority at your carrier with that vote. USCABA will go down in flames if there is a merger with UAL. No doubt about it.

 

[eaglesview]

And as you know, you would be in the distinct minority at your carrier with that vote. USCABA will go down in flames if there is a merger with UAL. No doubt about it.

Must be all the folks I don't fly with that want to keep ALPA. I can tell you that most of the 2172 pilots that were left out in the cold when we settled our bond issue are not on board with ALPA. I also know that when I show them the nic award that ALPA wanted USAir to sign off on, they understand why ALPA just lost 10 Mil/yr.

 

[PCL_128]

Anyone who has actually read the Nic award can see that it was imminently fair to all parties.

 

[eaglesview]

Anyone who has actually read the Nic award can see that it was imminently fair to all parties.

Well we will have to agree to disagree. We do have a couple of things in common though. I believe we both think the proposed merger is a very bad idea. Also we both believe our respective unions are worthless. I can say with confidence though that by now you would think the union that has had years to get its act together would be doing better than they are now.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm betting that you haven't actually read the award.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Must be all the folks I don't fly with that want to keep ALPA. I can tell you that most of the 2172 pilots that were left out in the cold when we settled our bond issue are not on board with ALPA. I also know that when I show them the nic award that ALPA wanted USAir to sign off on, they understand why ALPA just lost 10 Mil/yr.

I agree that many members don't value ALPA. However, the solution to dump ALPA is not realistic.

Let's see how USAPA plays out...

Maybe each of us needs to reform ALPA... is that a possibility...?

 

[eaglesview]

I agree that many members don't value ALPA. However, the solution to dump ALPA is not realistic.

Let's see how USAPA plays out...

Maybe each of us needs to reform ALPA... is that a possibility...?

Could be I am up for any union that has our careers in mind and is not in conflict with itself. (ie rejionals vs majors) I see Commute air just went ALPA. They seem to be good at getting the regionals but at who's expense? This is certainly not the union I signed up with in 1988 at EAL.

RALPA vs ALPA ?? Is it a possibility

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Could be I am up for any union that has our careers in mind and is not in conflict with itself. (ie rejionals vs majors) I see Commute air just went ALPA. They seem to be good at getting the regionals but at who's expense? This is certainly not the union I signed up with in 1988 at EAL.

RALPA vs ALPA ?? Is it a possibility

What was the union you signed up for in '88?

So many of us have this "ALPA isn't the union it once was" But they can never define.... what "was" is...

The past always seems better... b/c its the past.. and we got through it... and the future always seems bleak because it is unknown...

Look at what you are proposing... you want a union that protects YOUR career... and you are willing to create a smaller union that only address YOUR concerns.

What happens when that happens.. IOW... now your smaller union has senior guys and junior guys that have different career needs and wants... then what? A Senior PIlots Unions and a Junior Pilots union..

The inherit problem is we all look out for ourselves... so naturally we don't want a union that looks out for the other guy.. that is a waste of MY time and dues.

However, if we all go in house union, we have done nothing but drawn lines on the battlefield... In addition we lose an effective central voice in National and International affairs. (we take breathing air for granted.....this too....)

But that is the trick and the reality.. until we start looking out for ourselves and the other guy we will constantly be fighting each other... it is a paradigm shift of significance...

The union officer(s) that are able to bring pilots together to accomplish mutual effectiveness will be a true leader...... The AWA/AAA guys can't do it... the NWA/DAL guys can't either... It is like two siblings fighting it out... the parental solution is always worse... The sibilings don't have the emotional intelligence and maturity to figure it out.. and the parents (management/gov't) doesn't have the time or desire to be effective or fair...

This is the goal we should all be working towards..

 

[eaglesview]

What was the union you signed up for in '88?


Look at what you are proposing... you want a union that protects YOUR career... and you are willing to create a smaller union that only address YOUR concerns.

What happens when that happens.. IOW... now your smaller union has senior guys and junior guys that have different career needs and wants... then what? A Senior PIlots Unions and a Junior Pilots union..

The inherit problem is we all look out for ourselves... so naturally we don't want a union that looks out for the other guy.. that is a waste of MY time and dues.

However, if we all go in house union, we have done nothing but drawn lines on the battlefield... In addition we lose an effective central voice in National and International affairs. (we take breathing air for granted.....this too....)

But that is the trick and the reality.. until we start looking out for ourselves and the other guy we will constantly be fighting each other... it is a paradigm shift of significance...

The union officer(s) that are able to bring pilots together to accomplish mutual effectiveness will be a true leader...... The AWA/AAA guys can't do it... the NWA/DAL guys can't either... It is like two siblings fighting it out... the parental solution is always worse... The sibilings don't have the emotional intelligence and maturity to figure it out.. and the parents (management/gov't) doesn't have the time or desire to be effective or fair...

This is the goal we should all be working towards..

Yes!! now you got it. I want a union that protects my career. I do not give a hoot about the regional guy who wants to fly a 100 seat RJ. (an oxi moron) by the way (spelling?)) I find this "fictional union " looking after me quite refreshing and would like to pay those dues. Bravo AA SW and yes USAir. As far as dal/nwa goes ..both ALPA doesn't seem to help. AWA AAA just flat ugly. Ideally though when/if it gets figured out USAPA first priority will be USAir (AWA & AAA) pilots. It would be fine with me if there are no more mergers. That would make my day but if there are I am still in favor of DOH being the starting point to solve these conflicts. As far as legal, medical ect. , these can all be obtained outside of ALPA.

 

[pipejockey]

As long as the overpaid Alpo staff that includes over 30 people that make over 200 grand do not take pay cuts to share in our pain, I will immediate stop paying them dues altogether. We all must do this. Take a stand. Enough is enough!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As long as the overpaid Alpo staff that includes over 30 people that make over 200 grand do not take pay cuts to share in our pain, I will immediate stop paying them dues altogether. We all must do this. Take a stand. Enough is enough!

ALPA already furloughed staffers, including a $200+ salary staffer...

Let me know how your unification rally not to pay dues turns out....

 

[CopilotDoug]

DAL/NWA is going to make people's view of ALPA worse before it gets better. Some regionals are going to lose (Comair gone) and the guys at the remaining red tail regionals will get the shaft in the form of mainline flowbacks when the less efficient aircraft (DC-9) are dumped. Just one way I can see it panning out.

 

[airlinepilot]

Maybe ALPA needs paycuts and downsizing!

 

[PCL_128]

As long as the overpaid Alpo staff that includes over 30 people that make over 200 grand do not take pay cuts to share in our pain, I will immediate stop paying them dues altogether. We all must do this. Take a stand. Enough is enough!

Have fun with that. Since your carrier is agency shop, you'll lose your job for refusing to pay dues.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe ALPA needs paycuts and downsizing!

All ready done....

Pay attention! :beer:

 

[pipejockey]

Have fun with that. Since your carrier is agency shop, you'll lose your job for refusing to pay dues.

Not possible! Management couldn't care less if I am a union member or not. No information has ever crossed my path that said I needed to become a union member to accept employment at my company.

Just mark my words, if alpo gets away with applying dues to my 401k contributions, I will immediately rescind my dues authorization. This profession has never in the jet age, or probably even in its history, had its pilots' earning power as low as it is now. And the union that is supposed to represent us, but instead allows substandard after substandard contract to be voted on, comes up with an underhanded and despicable thing like this to extort even more money from us to line the pockets of the big wigs? I am appalled! This union has not ever done a single thing for me. SCREW THEM!!!!!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not possible! Management couldn't care less if I am a union member or not. No information has ever crossed my path that said I needed to become a union member to accept employment at my company.

Just mark my words, if alpo gets away with applying dues to my 401k contributions, I will immediately rescind my dues authorization. This profession has never in the jet age, or probably even in its history, had its pilots' earning power as low as it is now. And the union that is supposed to represent us, but instead allows substandard after substandard contract to be voted on, comes up with an underhanded and despicable thing like this to extort even more money from us to line the pockets of the big wigs? I am appalled! This union has not ever done a single thing for me. SCREW THEM!!!!!!!

Housing market got you down?

cost of oil freaking you out?

airline management got you all wrapped up?


somebody needs a nap!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Not possible! Management couldn't care less if I am a union member or not. No information has ever crossed my path that said I needed to become a union member to accept employment at my company.

Read your contract, specifically the agency shop provision. You don't have to be a member, but you have to pay dues. No dues, no job.

 

[eaglesview]

Not possible! Management couldn't care less if I am a union member or not. No information has ever crossed my path that said I needed to become a union member to accept employment at my company.

Just mark my words, if alpo gets away with applying dues to my 401k contributions, I will immediately rescind my dues authorization. This profession has never in the jet age, or probably even in its history, had its pilots' earning power as low as it is now. And the union that is supposed to represent us, but instead allows substandard after substandard contract to be voted on, comes up with an underhanded and despicable thing like this to extort even more money from us to line the pockets of the big wigs? I am appalled! This union has not ever done a single thing for me. SCREW THEM!!!!!!!

Wow I think thre is someone out there that is even angrier than I. Your frustration is justified. You are correct in pointing out how low our earning power is, not to mention our quality of life. My advise get busy, start a grass roots action and vote them out!!!

 

[SaturnPilot]

I do not give a hoot about the regional guy who wants to fly a 100 seat RJ. (an oxi moron) by the way (spelling?))

I understand the frustration that comes about with ALPA representing majors and regionals, but think about the alternative...regional airlines cannot afford an independent union. A regional independent union would not collect enough dues to survive more than 6 months of contract negotiations. Management would be able to bankrupt regional unions easily. The result would be that instead of having ALPA pilots flying regional jets for your company, you would have a bunch of non-union pilots flying them...wages would certainly go down for them, working conditions worsen, widen the already large gap between compensation/pay of the regionals and majors.

Ideally though when/if it gets figured out USAPA first priority will be USAir (AWA & AAA) pilots.

being that USAPA's only priority is the east pilots, there would have to be extremely drastic changes before that union really does give priority to both AAA & AWA pilots

 

[pipejockey]

Read your contract, specifically the agency shop provision. You don't have to be a member, but you have to pay dues. No dues, no job.

Sometimes there comes a point where you have to draw a line in the sand and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! And this is that time as it pertains to this useless union that clearly does not have my best interests in mind. alpo can take their agency shop provision, turn it sideways, and have it shoved straight up their corrupt a**! I truly don't know how they can look themselves in the mirror.

 

[eaglesview]

I understand the frustration that comes about with ALPA representing majors and regionals, but think about the alternative...regional airlines cannot afford an independent union. A regional independent union would not collect enough dues to survive more than 6 months of contract negotiations. Management would be able to bankrupt regional unions easily. The result would be that instead of having ALPA pilots flying regional jets for your company, you would have a bunch of non-union pilots flying them...wages would certainly go down for them, working conditions worsen, widen the already large gap between compensation/pay of the regionals and majors.

being that USAPA's only priority is the east pilots, there would have to be extremely drastic changes before that union really does give priority to both AAA & AWA pilots

Considering the RJ pilots out number the major pilots in ALPA I think they would survive. They might have to take pay cuts in the palace but they would survive. Actually really wouldn't care if they didn't.

I think flying twin otters for $900/mo. was actually good for me. Made me appreciate getting hired all that much more. Remember when getting hired by a legacy carrier was a step up?? Those were the good ole days

 

[PCL_128]

Sometimes there comes a point where you have to draw a line in the sand and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! And this is that time as it pertains to this useless union that clearly does not have my best interests in mind. alpo can take their agency shop provision, turn it sideways, and have it shoved straight up their corrupt a**! I truly don't know how they can look themselves in the mirror.

I look forward to hearing of your termination due to failure to pay your dues. Please keep us updated.