SWA and 737 type-rating -- Federal investigation?

[ultrarunner]

I guess my point, contrail, is that SWA has or has had in the past, a MINIMUM qualification for either an interview or job offer, right?

How is this any different from any other company having a minimum standard to either qualify for an interview (say, like a 4 year degree) or a minimum standard to qualify for a job offer?

In the cases of BOTH of these companies, someone wanting to be considered is required at some point to meet those qualifications.

Doesn't matter if it's paying for a college degree or paying for a type rating. I see no difference.

 

[Max Powers]

Shouldn't there be an investigation into whether illegal activity is involved in the funneling of pilot applicants into "preferred" type-schools, rejecting most of the qualified interviewees, then placing those lucky to be hired into a pool for years while the airline continues to actively recruit, interview, and steer additional batches of applicants into their buddies' $6,000.00 type-rating schools?

Sounds to me like:

1) A pyramid scheme.
2) Possible corruption.
3) Fraudulent misrepresentation.

....but that may all be a misperception on my part....

I Don't think there is any validity to that.

However, I do think SWA needs to think whether or not pressuring someone into spending $8-9k plus expenses, just to get an interview is a good idea. The pressure is significant especially for the Regional crowd. Imagine your company is in Bankruptcy you have been displaced twice furloughed once and looking at another furlough and the only way you can get even an interview is to get the Type. That is some massive pressure going into the interview. Thats what happened to me and I let the pressure get to me; hence poor performance in interview. Out of the 12 I interviewed with 3 got the job and the ones that did were NOT faced with the pressures I and others had. Coincidence.... I think not.

 

[ultrarunner]

However, I do think SWA needs to think whether or not pressuring someone into spending $8-9k plus expenses, just to get an interview is a good idea.

Uhh...man, you got it all wrong. SWA is NOT pressuring ANYONE that does not want to be pressured!

That corporation has set MINIMUM standards to either be considered for an interview or offered a job. NOTHING MORE.

CHRIST, you're practically calling it DURESS.

Dude, put it in perspective. It's just the rules of the game. If you don't like 'em, you don't have to play.

It really is as simple as that.

 

[contrail67]

I guess my point, contrail, is that SWA has or has had in the past, a MINIMUM qualification for either an interview or job offer, right?

How is this any different from any other company having a minimum standard to either qualify for an interview (say, like a 4 year degree) or a minimum standard to qualify for a job offer?

In the cases of BOTH of these companies, someone wanting to be considered is required at some point to meet those qualifications.

Doesn't matter if it's paying for a college degree or paying for a type rating. I see no difference.

No big deal...if that is what is needed to get a job, then that is what is needed.....then there are those that have no other option...or it is their own personal choice. To each his own.

 

[contrail67]

Not free, you just have to pay for it with super low first year pay and/or no health insurance for 6 months...

Had insurance from day 1...best insurance I have ever had....also don't forget the lower probationary pay does include 16% retirement fund that is put in by the company...helps some.

 

[Max Powers]

Uhh...man, you got it all wrong. SWA is NOT pressuring ANYONE that does not want to be pressured!

That corporation has set MINIMUM standards to either be considered for an interview or offered a job. NOTHING MORE.

CHRIST, you're practically calling it DURESS.

Dude, put it in perspective. It's just the rules of the game. If you don't like 'em, you don't have to play.

It really is as simple as that.

I don't disagree with what you say.......However, I think you failed to see or appreciate my point. My point is: perhaps SWA should think more on a moral or ethical scale when considering their "MINIMUM standards".

Not everyone has a rich Mommy and Daddy such as yourself. And some of us have families to support.

 

[JetDude]

I don't disagree with what you say.......However, I think you failed to see or appreciate my point. My point is: perhaps SWA should think more on a moral or ethical scale when considering their "MINIMUM standards".

Not everyone has a rich Mommy and Daddy such as yourself. And some of us have families to support.

Soooo...if it's not good for you then it's not good ethics or morals? You remind me of my kids when they were four.

 

[Max Powers]

Soooo...if it's not good for you then it's not good ethics or morals? You remind me of my kids when they were four.

Great come back......Your ideas to rebut my statements, remind me of your IQ.

You obviously came from the military and unlike myself became institutionalized, I fought hard to keep my individuality whilst in the Military. Lets see straight from Government pay to SWA yea you have a real clue how the rest of us see the world. Now lets see if you can say something smart and disagree with me in an adult and mature way. Or are you going to call me a 4 year old again?

 

[mokitty]

I don't disagree with what you say.......However, I think you failed to see or appreciate my point. My point is: perhaps SWA should think more on a moral or ethical scale when considering their "MINIMUM standards".

Not everyone has a rich Mommy and Daddy such as yourself. And some of us have families to support.

I didn't have a rich mommy or daddy. I saved a little from every paycheck until I had the money for the type. Then I went and got my type knowing it did not guarantee anything. I was hoping I would be more competitive and be called for an interview.

It was my plan and I set myself up for it. Thankfully it ended in a great job. SWA's process is well known and is not unethical or immoral. Job requirements are known to all and there are many ways to meet the qualifications; buying the type is only one way.

 

[cjdriver]

Never mind.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't disagree with what you say.......However, I think you failed to see or appreciate my point. My point is: perhaps SWA should think more on a moral or ethical scale when considering their "MINIMUM standards".

Not everyone has a rich Mommy and Daddy such as yourself. And some of us have families to support.

Opps..didn't mean to say "dude". But it is funny how that corresponds to today's 'aviation wonder children,' of which I am not.

Now, back on topic. I see your point and can appreciate it from your point of view. If it were MY goal to work at SWA, and I couldn't afford the entry to the game, I'd be pretty bummed out. It's a gamble, no doubt about it, and not a gamble everyone can make. As they say, you only bet what you can afford to loose....

But to reduce a corporations decision on a 'technical qualification' to a moral or ethical issue, is so out of touch as to be unbelievable!

And it's that attitude that you carried into the interview that made the difference. NOT the pressure, IMHO. Heck, you already spent the money! So, in the end, you gambled and lost...we've all gambled man....

I'd let it go....

No disrespect intended.

--Ultra

 

[JetDude]

Great come back......Your ideas to rebut my statements, remind me of your IQ.

You obviously came from the military and unlike myself became institutionalized, I fought hard to keep my individuality whilst in the Military. Lets see straight from Government pay to SWA yea you have a real clue how the rest of us see the world. Now lets see if you can say something smart and disagree with me in an adult and mature way. Or are you going to call me a 4 year old again?

You have no idea what you're talking about and once again made my previous point. I too have a family, used my own funds, on my own time, and made myself competitive based on a thoroughly explained prerequisite. I even did it when NO ONE was hiring, but saw the future potential whan SWA began interviewing again. No moral/ethical crying...I took the chance with no guarantees. I'm done with you on this.

 

[Deadalus]

I Don't think there is any validity to that.

However, I do think SWA needs to think whether or not pressuring someone into spending $8-9k plus expenses, just to get an interview is a good idea. The pressure is significant especially for the Regional crowd. Imagine your company is in Bankruptcy you have been displaced twice furloughed once and looking at another furlough and the only way you can get even an interview is to get the Type. That is some massive pressure going into the interview. Thats what happened to me and I let the pressure get to me; hence poor performance in interview. Out of the 12 I interviewed with 3 got the job and the ones that did were NOT faced with the pressures I and others had. Coincidence.... I think not.

If you're a company and you can get away with having people pay for their training, you're going to keep doing it. They're not looking for great pilots they're looking for great bend over artists. There will always be people out there that think flying is sooooo great they will justify buying the type. It's why the industry is so screwed, there will always be a surplus of air whores. You can buy the multi-time, buy the turbine time, buy the type, but you just can't buy integrity.

 

[waveflyer]

Max- one of the reasons i value what i do so much- is b/c it was such a huge perceived financial risk.
That being said- this profession teaches us so much about ourselves. How to relax and perform under pressure is one of them. Like you, i found much more pressure came from myself, b/c it represented a better life, than i ever found from the physical and mental act of flying an a/c. Which really just tells me that i had a poor persons mindset. But what's true? Fact is, balling up an a/p and dying should have provided much more pressure than money- but it didn't. The real truth: if you're talented enough to fly an a/c- you are talented enough to earn your way in any number of ways- and you ought to relax & be secure in your own abilities.
Let all the challenges of flying drive home the saying:

"Pray not for a lighter load, but for stronger shoulders."

It's no airline's fault if you don't rise to the occasion under the weight of your own pressure. (But i understand it.) Keep applying- keep working on yourself- you won't fail the next interview or the next "pressure" situation in life.

praise laaawwwrd.. sermon's over

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Papa,

I'm sorry you didn't get hired. Did you do any interview prep, or did you just try and impress the interviewers with your conspiracy theories?

Southwest doesn't care where you get your type rating. And for the illiterate or just stupid in the group who think that buying the rating is PFT, here it is one more time:

Paying your prospective airline for the job is PFT. Getting a type rating at a private company is investing in your future, just like getting a college degree, or paying for your commercial/ ATP.

You guys that got turned down really need to give it a rest. Southwest probably read your (barely) hidden bad attitudes.