DL/NW Regional Geometry

[Superpilot92]

You need to stop throwing around your assumptions about "you DAL guys."

I'm the "guy" constantly arguing that scope needs to be stronger and that this flying should remain on mainline's list. The best way would be a SSL. My Reps have my input. Do yours have your input yet?

Well i would love to but here recently i have seen you and others saying that 70 seaters are going to be replacing the dc9s. The only way to do that with the nwa scope clause is if Mainline gets new aircraft first. While a SSL would be nice its probably never going to happen. However protecting scope right now IS possible. You dont see any NWA guys saying that the 9's are going to be replaced completely with 70 seaters because right now we are protected. We need to keep that protection and make sure scope is maintained or made tighter. If you are voicing that, then by all means keep it up!! We all should be doing that. I am doing everything i can do to keep this subject in the forefront.

Hows training going?

 

[DoinTime]

A staple for Compass would be a good start.

First, a "staple" is never a good place to start. Second, why the discrimination on all of the other DCI/NW Airlink pilots that fly the same class of aircraft?

Thought processes like this are the reason why they always fail.

 

[Superpilot92]

First, a "staple" is never a good place to start. Second, why the discrimination on all of the other DCI/NW Airlink pilots that fly the same class of aircraft?

Thought processes like this are the reason why they always fail.

Wrong, A staple of Compass is a great place to start. Its better for them as they dont have to wait the 30 months and miss out on further seniority.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think you should be preaching to your pops about giving up scope at NWA and stop bashing the DAL guys.

The 9's are going to go away and so are the jobs.....unfortunate for you and every one who jumped ship within the last 6 months to go to NWA....but at least you have Compas as a fall back somewhat.

First i am not trying to "bash" the DAL guys i am just making sure the subject is talked about. Also you are Wrong about the 9 flying, it is currently protected under NWA scope. Sure the DC9s will eventually go away but those jobs shouldn't just go away and wont just go away unless they are let go! While its nice the compass deal is available i hope i dont have to use it even though that would give me a pay raise sooner. Lets hope nobody gets displaced, i guess we will see.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot92:

Here ya' go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25CYL1kpm04

 

[ACL65PILOT]

DC-9 JT8D engines 3000~ per side per hr. 6K
M-88 JT8D engines about the same
757 in cruise above 350. 2.7 per hr per side
767 above 350 4.0-4.8 per hr per side.
RJ-50 2.5-2.8 per hr per side
RJ-70 2.7.-2.9 per hr per side

Now you can get all of these lower in LRC but the fact is that the 757 and 767 are still very efficient birds for their age. It just amazes me how little the thing burns. We go from ATL to SAN with 35.0 on the block fuel and burn about 27.0. Not bad for a 2000 mile flight.

Now the RJ DC-9 argument is about CASM. Not fuel alone. The 9's are paid for and can operate a lot cheaper than a RJ or an 88. What it comes down to is which aircraft will provide the most yeild per seat mile. This answer is different for each market on any given day of the week. Hence there will be some of each type of aircraft for a few more years.
The 50's, 9's and 88's are short for this world. Now if oil drops as it should these bad boys will be here until the C-series and the 737E arrive.
Either way if you have 76 seaters on property you are fine. (ASA will get them as SKW is pulling theirs out west) The above posts are correct when it comes to DCI contracts. CMR will hire so that they become attractive to sell. Personally I do not see them doing that unless they can operate Compass and Pinnacle the same way as CMR. (As relief valves to their DCI contracts) CMR is a great way for Delta to stay out of court. You get the growth in good times and the ax in bad.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Superpilot. FWIW your scope will die with the new PWA. Lets make sure that your current verbiage is in there. If not they will have carte blanch on the 9's

 

[ACL65PILOT]

First, a "staple" is never a good place to start. Second, why the discrimination on all of the other DCI/NW Airlink pilots that fly the same class of aircraft?

Thought processes like this are the reason why they always fail.

It is not discrimination. Fact is that Compass shares the same MEC with NWA. That alone is reason enough to add them to our list. I know that a few others are owned by the parent company, but how they are managed in the corporate structure varies. In addition to this you do not share the same MEC ergo your interest diverge from that of the NWA MEC. Now I am sure that we could do this, but it will not happen in the near term. Too many fish are currently in the barrel and need cooking. If it were to happen it would be after Compass came on board.

 

[~~~^~~~]

DC-9 JT8D engines 3000~ per side per hr. 6K
M-88 JT8D engines about the same
757 in cruise above 350. 2.7 per hr per side
767 above 350 4.0-4.8 per hr per side.
RJ-50 2.5-2.8 per hr per side
RJ-70 2.7.-2.9 per hr per side

Now the RJ DC-9 argument is about CASM. Not fuel alone. The 9's are paid for and can operate a lot cheaper than a RJ or an 88. What it comes down to is which aircraft will provide the most yeild per seat mile. This answer is different for each market on any given day of the week.

I agree with everything you wrote, but offer a correction.

The RJ burn you wrote is total, not per side.

If Delta is under contract to pay for the RJ then it is cheaper to park the DC9. It is hard to park assets you are still paying for.

Living in North Georgia I see this frequently. The new car is parked in the front yard, the old car is on blocks around the side of the house.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I agree with everything you wrote, but offer a correction.

The RJ burn you wrote is total, not per side.

Exactly, in cruise the 70 burns anywhere from 1500-1900 a side depending on altitude/speed. (usually somewhere between 1700-1800 at .76 to.78)

 

[Smarta$$]

No more so than a DC9. It is an airplane and has a market.

What we need to do is recognize it for what it is and deal with it. Totally arbitrary lines in the sand do not improve our profession. We need to get this stuff on mainline's list. A staple for Compass would be a good start.

Just curious, why the special treatment for this group of pilots that has done nothing to earn this loyalty. Just a bunch of guys that say an oportunity to be at the top of a seniority list flying a nice airplane for a few dollars more than fifty seat pay. In some cases less than fifty seat pay.

Why not just give all Alpa pilots in the DL\NW system a number at the bottom of the big list. It would seem that you are falling for the old trick of only airplanes big enough or nice enough are worth fighting for.

Seniority without longevity costs DL nothing. It should not be that hard.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot92:

Here ya' go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25CYL1kpm04

Oh yeah its like a dream come true!! Thanks for sharing

 

[DoinTime]

Wrong, A staple of Compass is a great place to start. Its better for them as they dont have to wait the 30 months and miss out on further seniority.

It is not discrimination. Fact is that Compass shares the same MEC with NWA. That alone is reason enough to add them to our list. I know that a few others are owned by the parent company, but how they are managed in the corporate structure varies. In addition to this you do not share the same MEC ergo your interest diverge from that of the NWA MEC. Now I am sure that we could do this, but it will not happen in the near term. Too many fish are currently in the barrel and need cooking. If it were to happen it would be after Compass came on board.

How about the Champion pilots? They should get preferential treatment prior to Compass pilots. They are out of work you know.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Seniority without longevity costs DL nothing. It should not be that hard.

You'd think, but in reality the political battle may be overwhelming.

Many pilots see it as a big deal to fly for Delta and the truth is, it IS a big deal. It is not arrogance, it simply is a good place to work (while that lasts).

Most people who work at Delta are at their first choice airline. Once they get in the door there are more like minded people who reinforce that opinion.

 

[Superpilot92]

How about the Champion pilots? They should get preferential treatment prior to Compass pilots.

Champion didn't have a flowthrough and wasn't represented by the NWA MEC were they?