DL/NW Regional Geometry

[Superpilot92]

Oops Double Did It :nuts:

 

[Smarta$$]

They also get a free pass to the street if flowbacks start, do you?

I want to see all jet flying done by mainline pilots. Correct past mistakes while we have the opportunity. Superpilot and I were not part of this problem, but we can help be part of the solution.

As for the flow, it's what was negotiated by Compass. IMO, flow should only be given to those who meet NWA/DAL hiring mins (including college degree). I know NWA didn't require a degree, but I'd like you to find someone hired in the last wave who wasn't a college grad! The "profession" aspect has lost it's credibility. Try to find a Doctor or Lawyer that's not college educated, then look at the stupidity(grammatical and other) posted on FI. Time to raise the professional bar. I'd be okay with allowing flow ups from any WO if they are deserving and qualified! Stop your bitching and negotiate it, Smata$$.

Now you are talking about flow through, you were talking about a compass staple.

The flow, may or may not happen at some point in the future. They are different things.

 

[DrewBlows]

Now you are talking about flow through, you were talking about a compass staple.

The flow, may or may not happen at some point in the future. They are different things.

Superpilot wasn't talking about "flow" when he said this.

I will say it again, I wish all of you were put below us what part of that do you not understand? Both MJ42 and I would love nothing more than to bring all of Compass, Mesaba, and Pinnacle on to the bottom of the NWA list. 1. that would be good for everyone planning to move on to bigger planes and bigger paychecks and 2. it would give us junior guys major seniority protection, more so then what we planned on having with Compass. Unfortunately we are the junior guys and dont make the rules. We would love nothing more than to have the E-175s and CRJs of all sizes on the mainline ticket. So hopefully that will be enough of your comments on how we are "Cherry picking" the "worthy airplanes"

I think everyone on FI could agree with everything you say and you'd still bitch about them not telling you how handsome you are in the process. You are really annoying.

If you want what Compass has (the first furlough ticket), apply.

 

[MJ42]

Now you are talking about flow through, you were talking about a compass staple. Show me one post where I used the word "staple". My first post on this thread was #48, I did say fins and superpilot have the right IDEA. I may not agree with them on a complete staple even though it would help me, but Compass pilots have the most to lose(their jobs) if we furlough. Therefore, they should also have the most to gain. Risk=reward.

The flow, may or may not happen at some point in the future. They are different things.

Again, I just gave my opinion on how we should integrate WO pilots into NWA. Not a bad deal if you meet the mins.

Your primary argument seems to be about what planes we(NWA/DAL pilots) want at mainline and you assume the pilots will come with the planes(i.e. staple). Have you seen the (lack of quality) pilots you've hired in the past year. What were your hiring mins? Do you think a 300 hour high school educate wonder should be stapled on the bottom of the new DAL SLI? Is that fair? Compass had much higher mins. Most of the pilots hired were very experienced former 121 Captains or higher time FO's. I believe a couple of 900 hour pilots slipped through, but that was stopped right away.

Should the 175 pilots at Compass be stapled? Well, it's not my first choice in the way they could be integrated, but I would not have a problem. Should Mesaba or Pinnacle be stapled, hell no! Reason being quality control (no 300 hr wonders at mainline).

Again, I'd love to see a flow with as many Compass, Mesaba, Pinnacle, Comair, ASA and even SkyWest and the other DCI and Airlnkers. I'd just like to see it work like I stated in my opinion, take the best (yes, cherry pick from the pilot group). Have a defined set of mins and flow up if you meet ALL the requirements when there is an opening.

Did I answer your staple comment?

 

[NuGuy]

Notice they have not been arguing for this. If it had a wider cross section maybe! But until then it is not worthy.

You know, SA, you are full of it.

There are NOT "hundereds" of 76 seat RJs in the NWA, and you know it.

Furthermore, the NWA pilots went to bat for XJ and 9E back in 2000, and everyone was a hair's breadth from getting a revolutionary agreement for all parties, but you guys decided that you didn't want to foot ANY of the bill for doing so.

Check out the story with Tom Wychor sometime if you want to hear a sad story of what could have been.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot, Nu, Drew Blows:

Have you guys written your reps on the subject? I've written mine.

Everyone that is willing needs to be making their input as the Reps go to the table with Delta.

 

[Superpilot92]

Did I answer your staple comment?

For my "staple" comment i will add, while the "staple" term sounds bad its actually far better than what the Compass guys have now. If they were brought onto the bottom of the mainline list Tomorrow they are far better off then if they waited the 30 months etc. Going to the bottom now would mean less of a seniority loss when hiring is to resume because they wouldnt be behind everyone hired before they hit their 30 months. Secondly its not like they are at anymore of a risk of being furloughed from the bottom of the NWA list then they would be if we NWA guys got flushed back to Compass. At least they would be coming back to Mainline instead of compass.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot, Nu, Drew Blows:

Have you guys written your reps on the subject? I've written mine.

Everyone that is willing needs to be making their input as the Reps go to the table with Delta.

I have written my reps with my thoughts and questions and i appreciate you doing the same.

 

[DoinTime]

Furthermore, the NWA pilots went to bat for XJ and 9E back in 2000, and everyone was a hair's breadth from getting a revolutionary agreement for all parties, but you guys decided that you didn't want to foot ANY of the bill for doing so.

Are you referring to the 100% flow back rights in exchange for a preferential interview? The only thing revolutionary about that deal was that it would have caused a revolution with the pilots at the Airlinks against their MECs had it passed.

 

[ttuite]

I know very well that you both flew RJ's. But, apparently you have moved up, and your status now (as gathered from your arguement to only bring the E175 on) is of the mainline pilot that is to important to fly anything with the letters R or J in it.

If I was wrong, you would agree that a CR9 and CR2 should be just as important to integrate. And the thousands of pilots that have served NW\DL for years deserve better than watching a bunch of 6-18 month new hires get the free pass.

I am curious as to what you are thinking. What you seem to be advocating is that all of the "jets" are put on the mainline senority list. You then would be put (assuming the you would be hired) back to FO at $30.00/hr. When the furloughs come then you would be put on the street. The other option is that you keep your higher pay, better schedule, continue to increase your experience level and then after the economy comes around you could move from the security of your better paying job to a Major that at that particular time seems to be doing well. If I were you the only reason that I would not want option #2 would be if I suck so bad that I couldn't be hired by a major.

 

[Raskal]

I am curious as to what you are thinking. What you seem to be advocating is that all of the "jets" are put on the mainline senority list. You then would be put (assuming the you would be hired) back to FO at $30.00/hr. When the furloughs come then you would be put on the street. The other option is that you keep your higher pay, better schedule, continue to increase your experience level and then after the economy comes around you could move from the security of your better paying job to a Major that at that particular time seems to be doing well. If I were you the only reason that I would not want option #2 would be if I suck so bad that I couldn't be hired by a major.

I've read these arguments with some of the same thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hard time thinking that the mainline wants to staple regionals "for the good of the industry", sounds like a relatively direct way to pad the list below for furlogh fodder during harder times such as these. I have nothing against that motive, after all, this industry is based on self-preservation (ie-steenland, anderson and (according to some) moak).

I know if I were a senior captain who got stapled and went from a good schedule and 100k+ to reserve and 35k I doubt I'd be happy for the "great opportunity". For better or worse, the regionals have developed into their present state-a viable career option for those who, for whatever reason, are not inclined to move to a mainline and start over. I realize that statement seems to really anger some on this board, but one look at the XJ seniority list and the amount of senior (and junior) pilots who elected not to flow vs. the relatively few who did is pretty telling.

Again, I don't mean to enter into a mainline v. regional argument, I have no dog in that fight and as I'm a junior captain flow/staple really makes no difference for some time to come.

 

[Superpilot92]

I've read these arguments with some of the same thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hard time thinking that the mainline wants to staple regionals "for the good of the industry", sounds like a relatively direct way to pad the list below for furlogh fodder during harder times such as these. I have nothing against that motive, after all, this industry is based on self-preservation (ie-steenland, anderson and (according to some) moak).

I know if I were a senior captain who got stapled and went from a good schedule and 100k+ to reserve and 35k I doubt I'd be happy for the "great opportunity". For better or worse, the regionals have developed into their present state-a viable career option for those who, for whatever reason, are not inclined to move to a mainline and start over. I realize that statement seems to really anger some on this board, but one look at the XJ seniority list and the amount of senior (and junior) pilots who elected not to flow vs. the relatively few who did is pretty telling.

Again, I don't mean to enter into a mainline v. regional argument, I have no dog in that fight and as I'm a junior captain flow/staple really makes no difference for some time to come.

Well as far as Compass goes it would seem to me that it would be better to be put onto the bottom of the Mainline list now as apposed to maybe 30 months later. The job protections are the same whether on the NWA list or not. At least if you got furloughed from NWA you have the opportunity to come back to NWA as apposed to getting bumped from Compass in the event of NWA furloughs and only have recall rights to Compass. Just a thought.

 

[Raskal]

Well as far as Compass goes it would seem to me that it would be better to be put onto the bottom of the Mainline list now as apposed to maybe 30 months later. The job protections are the same whether on the NWA list or not. At least if you got furloughed from NWA you have the opportunity to come back to NWA as apposed to getting bumped from Compass in the event of NWA furloughs and only have recall rights to Compass. Just a thought.

That's true, for Compass it probably does make sense (which is why it's the least likely to happen ) as their list is relatively young and they share an MEC already...good point.