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Frontier pay cuts?

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I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.
 
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Check your history, Caveman. No airline has kept from liquidation by cutting pilot pay. Not one.

Its a fact. All these guys are doing is prolonging their pain through the summer.
 
Fubijaakr said:
Check your history, Caveman. No airline has kept from liquidation by cutting pilot pay. Not one.

Its a fact. All these guys are doing is prolonging their pain through the summer.
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How about DAL, UAL and CMR? All took cuts in BK and all are still here. I'm sure there's more, but that's all I could come up with after 12 seconds of deep thought. History checked.

BTW, I never commented on the validity of whether or not paycuts kept airlines from liquidating. I said I dislike folks whose jobs aren't on the line telling others whose jobs are on the line what they should or shouldn't be doing.
 
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Caveman said:
I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.
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I agree with you 100 percent. But I don't view the "advice" from the peanut gallery, sidelines or whatever as malicious. I think too many people are envisioning themselves in the same scenario sooner rather than later. Its just professional colleagues sharing opinions on a terrible situation.
 
Caveman said:
I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.
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The decision that they make will affect all of us.
 
Caveman said:
I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.
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I agree there Caveman, but even Skybus's payrates didn't save them. Its not all about the pilots pay!
 
Caveman said:
I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.
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Well ... if you're tired of know-it-alls talking about airline stuff, there's a nifty thread about the environment laying around here somewhere ... wait a minute, I know it's here. I last left it next to the threads on racism and the economy.
 
FBN0223 said:
As it stands now, Frontier pilots are among the highest paid A320 pilots in the industry, but with concessions here is how they would stack up.

Other A320 operators 10 year Captain/FO pay rates:

NWA...............137CA/92FO
Jetblue............137CA/84FO
USAir.............135CA/83FO
UAL...............133CA/91FO
Frontier...........125CA/77FO
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The inherent ironic sadness in this post kills me.

And to think I only have 28 and half years left to live the dream.
 
I have several friends at F9, I have flown on them as a paying customer, and I think they run a nice airline. Having said that, I am very much afraid it could be a 100% pay cut by the end of the year. I hope I'm wrong, but given the realities of the market, competition from WN and a desperate UAL, oil at $120+, and a drop in consumer confidence and spending, I fear for the future of most airlines and especially smaller carriers like F9.

Man, this business can really suck. Best of luck F9.
 
PCL_128 said:
The decision that they make will affect all of us.
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That's true PCL, but it affects them more directly, and sooner. I voted "no" on every concessionary contract I was ever presented with, but I never told someone else they were wrong for voting the way they did. I'm not saying you are, I'm just sayin'...
 
PCL_128 said:
If DIP financing is really the issue here, then FAPA should demand to see an agreement between Frontier and the creditors that shows a DIP financing agreement contingent upon employee concessions. Taking concessions in blind hope of DIP financing is not a smart move.
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I AGREE 100%.

Cya
 
Good Luck Guys

Vote the way you want !!

Where are the fuel surcharges? Just ordered pizza and yes 1.95 for fuel surcharge added to bill ...??
 
Who is going to offer a company DIP financing for assets that are dropping in market value (at least domesticly)? F9 has to wait out the market and hope fares rise dramatically. With WN on their doorstep, that doesn't look likely.

Maybe Branson would like to drop a few bucks in and help them hedge their fuel a little in exchange for a mid-continent hub.
 
Another diehard "NO" voter here. Not all of us have had our heads in the sand for the last 10 years. If a BK judge is gonna screw us he will find ways whether or not we've been "cooperative."

Unfortunately too many of the captains here could give a rats behind about the profession, and are willing to sacrifice nearly anything so that they don't have to worry about their out of date logbooks.

Oh, but let's not forget: $4.57 million buys you optional hats. Woot.
 
rtmcfi said:
Vote for the concessions, with a snapback clause, guaranteed DIP financing dependant upon your concessions, and a 6 month parachute like your management. Seems fair.
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Wow....

What kind of sick twisted f*(k has an avatar like that..... christ dude......
 
Sorry guys I was at ATA in 2004 when management came to ALPA and asked for pay cuts that would snap back within a certain period of time (don't remember how long). We fell for it and voted yes in April of 2004 and the company filed for Ch. 11 in October of 2004 giving away its bread and butter in Chicago and everything they possible could. Pay concessions will not save you, only a smart and realistic business plan that doesn't live off the backs of its employees. Guys don't be fooled and don't let fear force you into something that you will probable regret later. Make them show you the numbers and what their business plan is. Don't walk blindly into this trap!
Best of luck to you guys at Frontier!
 
Neither you nor FAPA are in the driver's seat. You say you are upset that the company didn't give you enough warning. What difference does it make if they give you one day or three months to read the TA and decide how you want to vote. you basically have a choice, Vote YES and give the company what it wants or vote NO and watch the company TAKE it. It really doesn't matter whether you believe they are telling the truth, or if a pay cut ever saved a company. It is a bad situation any way you look at it. It is out of your hands now.
Good luck
 
Bookingsareup said:
Neither you nor FAPA are in the driver's seat. You say you are upset that the company didn't give you enough warning. What difference does it make if they give you one day or three months to read the TA and decide how you want to vote. you basically have a choice, Vote YES and give the company what it wants or vote NO and watch the company TAKE it. It really doesn't matter whether you believe they are telling the truth, or if a pay cut ever saved a company. It is a bad situation any way you look at it. It is out of your hands now.
Good luck
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Right on the money my friend. Now I can stop wasting my time reading debates on these and other boards, your post sums it up. Thank you...and I'm not being sarcastic.
 
Networ-King said:
Wow....

What kind of sick twisted f*(k has an avatar like that..... christ dude......
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Actually I think it's hilarious! And I like cats... lol
 
Networ-King said:
Wow....

What kind of sick twisted f*(k has an avatar like that..... christ dude......
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What do you have against adopting cats? That one's past its "buy before" date but, I mean, come on... ;) TC
 

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