Frontier pay cuts?

[OK3]

At the very least make sure to put snapback language in any agreement you make. You should not have to "fight" to get back to where you are now after these tough times pass, and they will pass. Good luck guys.

 

[tzskipper]

It would take months for the company to get forced concessions from the judge

There is also an 1113e section of the BK code. Don't think that a company cannot get "emergency" relief from a Judge. The standard that the court requires is in favor of the company that is in distress.

To the F9 guys; hang in there.

Skipper

 

[PositiveRate]

Regardless of the paycuts, how does Frontier fly out of this one? Is there a standalone option or is it merger, buyout or lights out?

 

[Networ-King]

I'm betting that the company hasn't even prepared an 1113(c) filing yet. It will take them time to prepare and present it to the judge. It isn't as easy as just walking into court and asking for concessions. It would take months for the company to get forced concessions from the judge. That's months more of better pay while you get your ducks in a row. No need to willingly bend over.

I know a few buddies at Frontier and they are all great guys, but they all drink from the company koolaid fountain. I've tried to understand their way of thinking and I think the denial is so bad that one guy told me the CEO only filed BK because he was upset at the credit card company...... he said they really didn't even need to file for BK protection. Well... this was about the time my eye started twitching and I figured I was talking to a brick wall. My understanding is that the majority of the guys over there, pre furloughed pilot hiring, are the same way. Good luck over there guys.... just remember SKYBUS..... their pay was ********************e and they still went tits up......

 

[OnTheDole]

It ain't that easy, just saying no. If we do vote no then the company can go to the judge and he can force it on us. He can also make it under terms he deems appropriate.

They can also do that 30 sec. after you agree to the pay cut. If you think taking this paycut will keep the company off your backs looking for more give backs you're smoking crack.

 

[71driver]

Pay cuts will not save the company!!!! That is a fact Just say no!!

I hate to tell you guys but you'll probably be out of a job come September unless someone buys you, then you will get f**k by the aquiring Pilot group either way you are probably screwed so take what you can....you know mngmt will.

 

[FBN0223]

As it stands now, Frontier pilots are among the highest paid A320 pilots in the industry, but with concessions here is how they would stack up.

Other A320 operators 10 year Captain/FO pay rates:

NWA...............137CA/92FO
Jetblue............137CA/84FO
USAir.............135CA/83FO
UAL...............133CA/91FO
Frontier...........125CA/77FO

 

[AnimalTale]

Think about this:

Oil will not go down. The price is the direct relationship with consumption. People will still pay these prices for gas. Speculation will drive it higher.

The only way the airlines will survive is by pricing their product to create a profit for their business. Airlines are in business to make money by carrying passengers. If they cant do that then they can GO OUT OF BUSINESS. The fundamentals will catch up to everyone.

If a company can not pay their bills (labor, fuel etc) and then be profitable, then the company should not exist.. CAPITALISM is good. It creates a balance in our society.

With that said; This "new" f9 contract should be voted on k(NO)wing that it is probably the CEOs resume builder. There is no way that these paycuts will LURE any DIP or help out the company. The only thing it is going to show is that MENKE was able to keep his crew solid and onboard until the very end (koolaid). I truly hope I am wrong. I love the Koolaid and this company.

SOS/CYA

 

[FBN0223]

The whole industry had to learn the hard way that fear and greed can sell almost anything. Hopefully, the Frontier pilots have been watching and will not buy the bag of crap labeled as concessions. My last Captain said it best, "Never, vote a pay cut for yourself." Seems like an easy rule to follow.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

First of all the management has taken a 20% pay cut already. All other employees have taken (were told) that they are getting a 10% pay cut.

The employee concessions means that F9 doesn't have DIP financing. In general maybe concessions don't save companies but this companies hinges on whether they can get the money. So the concession is more a gesture of unity within the company than a real way to get out of BK. It maybe the tipping point between getting DIP and not getting it. Without it F9 is done. I'm not delusional and I realize that it's probably done anyway.

Animal Tale I don't know how you can KNOW that it won't help F9 secure DIP financing. It doesn't make any sense that you think Menke's Victory over FAPA is going to be a resume builder when you know that it won't help secure DIP and then he's still seen as the CEO that couldn't run F9. Getting the concessions is nothing on his resume compared with saving F9. Maybe he's given up maybe he hasn't.

 

[climb2slow]

Vote no. It the company wants to tell us that that there is DIP financing available if we accept the agreements then i might change my mind. But giving us 5 days to vote is BS. Nothing in the 11 process this early on requires that kind of haste. we are at least 60 days out from the 1110, and after that we'll see where we are at. my vote is NO.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It ain't that easy, just saying no. If we do vote no then the company can go to the judge and he can force it on us. He can also make it under terms he deems appropriate. With the majority of our employees non union and taking the cuts to think a judge wouldn't force it on us is ridiculous. That being said, I am not happy with it and haven't made up my mind.
It looks to be 10% with no 401k match. Our CEO and the executive team all took 20% cuts starting May 1st.

SKYW did the same thing, they then "trued up" the management team with bonuses and the employees got the "bone", nada, zip, zilch, fat fist in the eye. Might I be the first to suggest a novel and untried concept(in the pax industry), fuel surcharge! You could work for free and still the model will fail ultimately. Good business practices do not include employees chipping in for gas!
PBR

 

[AnimalTale]

I truly hope I am wrong. I love the Koolaid and this company.

Whiskey Tango,

My Brotha, Reread my quote above.
All CEOs are the same. Some just hide better in the "sheep" costume.


Cya

 

[PCL_128]

First of all the management has taken a 20% pay cut already. All other employees have taken (were told) that they are getting a 10% pay cut.

The employee concessions means that F9 doesn't have DIP financing. In general maybe concessions don't save companies but this companies hinges on whether they can get the money. So the concession is more a gesture of unity within the company than a real way to get out of BK. It maybe the tipping point between getting DIP and not getting it. Without it F9 is done. I'm not delusional and I realize that it's probably done anyway.

Animal Tale I don't know how you can KNOW that it won't help F9 secure DIP financing. It doesn't make any sense that you think Menke's Victory over FAPA is going to be a resume builder when you know that it won't help secure DIP and then he's still seen as the CEO that couldn't run F9. Getting the concessions is nothing on his resume compared with saving F9. Maybe he's given up maybe he hasn't.

If DIP financing is really the issue here, then FAPA should demand to see an agreement between Frontier and the creditors that shows a DIP financing agreement contingent upon employee concessions. Taking concessions in blind hope of DIP financing is not a smart move.

 

[auspac]

SKYW did the same thing, they then "trued up" the management team with bonuses and the employees got the "bone", nada, zip, zilch, fat fist in the eye. Might I be the first to suggest a novel and untried concept(in the pax industry), fuel surcharge! You could work for free and still the model will fail ultimately. Good business practices do not include employees chipping in for gas!
PBR

Completely false. SkyWest pilots never took a paycut. (There's not that much to cut!)