Frontier pay cuts?

[71driver]

Pay cuts will not save the company!!!! That is a fact Just say no!!

I hate to tell you guys but you'll probably be out of a job come September unless someone buys you, then you will get f**k by the aquiring Pilot group either way you are probably screwed so take what you can....you know mngmt will.

 

[FBN0223]

As it stands now, Frontier pilots are among the highest paid A320 pilots in the industry, but with concessions here is how they would stack up.

Other A320 operators 10 year Captain/FO pay rates:

NWA...............137CA/92FO
Jetblue............137CA/84FO
USAir.............135CA/83FO
UAL...............133CA/91FO
Frontier...........125CA/77FO

 

[AnimalTale]

Think about this:

Oil will not go down. The price is the direct relationship with consumption. People will still pay these prices for gas. Speculation will drive it higher.

The only way the airlines will survive is by pricing their product to create a profit for their business. Airlines are in business to make money by carrying passengers. If they cant do that then they can GO OUT OF BUSINESS. The fundamentals will catch up to everyone.

If a company can not pay their bills (labor, fuel etc) and then be profitable, then the company should not exist.. CAPITALISM is good. It creates a balance in our society.

With that said; This "new" f9 contract should be voted on k(NO)wing that it is probably the CEOs resume builder. There is no way that these paycuts will LURE any DIP or help out the company. The only thing it is going to show is that MENKE was able to keep his crew solid and onboard until the very end (koolaid). I truly hope I am wrong. I love the Koolaid and this company.

SOS/CYA

 

[FBN0223]

The whole industry had to learn the hard way that fear and greed can sell almost anything. Hopefully, the Frontier pilots have been watching and will not buy the bag of crap labeled as concessions. My last Captain said it best, "Never, vote a pay cut for yourself." Seems like an easy rule to follow.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

First of all the management has taken a 20% pay cut already. All other employees have taken (were told) that they are getting a 10% pay cut.

The employee concessions means that F9 doesn't have DIP financing. In general maybe concessions don't save companies but this companies hinges on whether they can get the money. So the concession is more a gesture of unity within the company than a real way to get out of BK. It maybe the tipping point between getting DIP and not getting it. Without it F9 is done. I'm not delusional and I realize that it's probably done anyway.

Animal Tale I don't know how you can KNOW that it won't help F9 secure DIP financing. It doesn't make any sense that you think Menke's Victory over FAPA is going to be a resume builder when you know that it won't help secure DIP and then he's still seen as the CEO that couldn't run F9. Getting the concessions is nothing on his resume compared with saving F9. Maybe he's given up maybe he hasn't.

 

[climb2slow]

Vote no. It the company wants to tell us that that there is DIP financing available if we accept the agreements then i might change my mind. But giving us 5 days to vote is BS. Nothing in the 11 process this early on requires that kind of haste. we are at least 60 days out from the 1110, and after that we'll see where we are at. my vote is NO.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

It ain't that easy, just saying no. If we do vote no then the company can go to the judge and he can force it on us. He can also make it under terms he deems appropriate. With the majority of our employees non union and taking the cuts to think a judge wouldn't force it on us is ridiculous. That being said, I am not happy with it and haven't made up my mind.
It looks to be 10% with no 401k match. Our CEO and the executive team all took 20% cuts starting May 1st.

SKYW did the same thing, they then "trued up" the management team with bonuses and the employees got the "bone", nada, zip, zilch, fat fist in the eye. Might I be the first to suggest a novel and untried concept(in the pax industry), fuel surcharge! You could work for free and still the model will fail ultimately. Good business practices do not include employees chipping in for gas!
PBR

 

[AnimalTale]

I truly hope I am wrong. I love the Koolaid and this company.

Whiskey Tango,

My Brotha, Reread my quote above.
All CEOs are the same. Some just hide better in the "sheep" costume.


Cya

 

[PCL_128]

First of all the management has taken a 20% pay cut already. All other employees have taken (were told) that they are getting a 10% pay cut.

The employee concessions means that F9 doesn't have DIP financing. In general maybe concessions don't save companies but this companies hinges on whether they can get the money. So the concession is more a gesture of unity within the company than a real way to get out of BK. It maybe the tipping point between getting DIP and not getting it. Without it F9 is done. I'm not delusional and I realize that it's probably done anyway.

Animal Tale I don't know how you can KNOW that it won't help F9 secure DIP financing. It doesn't make any sense that you think Menke's Victory over FAPA is going to be a resume builder when you know that it won't help secure DIP and then he's still seen as the CEO that couldn't run F9. Getting the concessions is nothing on his resume compared with saving F9. Maybe he's given up maybe he hasn't.

If DIP financing is really the issue here, then FAPA should demand to see an agreement between Frontier and the creditors that shows a DIP financing agreement contingent upon employee concessions. Taking concessions in blind hope of DIP financing is not a smart move.

 

[auspac]

SKYW did the same thing, they then "trued up" the management team with bonuses and the employees got the "bone", nada, zip, zilch, fat fist in the eye. Might I be the first to suggest a novel and untried concept(in the pax industry), fuel surcharge! You could work for free and still the model will fail ultimately. Good business practices do not include employees chipping in for gas!
PBR

Completely false. SkyWest pilots never took a paycut. (There's not that much to cut!)

 

[Caveman]

I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.

 

[Caveman]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Check your history, Caveman. No airline has kept from liquidation by cutting pilot pay. Not one.

Its a fact. All these guys are doing is prolonging their pain through the summer.

 

[Caveman]

Check your history, Caveman. No airline has kept from liquidation by cutting pilot pay. Not one.

Its a fact. All these guys are doing is prolonging their pain through the summer.

How about DAL, UAL and CMR? All took cuts in BK and all are still here. I'm sure there's more, but that's all I could come up with after 12 seconds of deep thought. History checked.

BTW, I never commented on the validity of whether or not paycuts kept airlines from liquidating. I said I dislike folks whose jobs aren't on the line telling others whose jobs are on the line what they should or shouldn't be doing.

 

[redbook]

I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.

I agree with you 100 percent. But I don't view the "advice" from the peanut gallery, sidelines or whatever as malicious. I think too many people are envisioning themselves in the same scenario sooner rather than later. Its just professional colleagues sharing opinions on a terrible situation.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.

The decision that they make will affect all of us.

 

[WSurf]

I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.

I agree there Caveman, but even Skybus's payrates didn't save them. Its not all about the pilots pay!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I'm not sugesting what F9 should do one way or the other, but I do take exception with internet know-it-alls telling another pilot group what they should or shouldn't do. Unless you've walked this walk before you have no idea how difficult a decision it is. It's easy to shout advice from the sidelines. It's a whole different deal when it's your job and your livelihood on the line. Good luck to F9.

Well ... if you're tired of know-it-alls talking about airline stuff, there's a nifty thread about the environment laying around here somewhere ... wait a minute, I know it's here. I last left it next to the threads on racism and the economy.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

As it stands now, Frontier pilots are among the highest paid A320 pilots in the industry, but with concessions here is how they would stack up.

Other A320 operators 10 year Captain/FO pay rates:

NWA...............137CA/92FO
Jetblue............137CA/84FO
USAir.............135CA/83FO
UAL...............133CA/91FO
Frontier...........125CA/77FO

The inherent ironic sadness in this post kills me.

And to think I only have 28 and half years left to live the dream.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I have several friends at F9, I have flown on them as a paying customer, and I think they run a nice airline. Having said that, I am very much afraid it could be a 100% pay cut by the end of the year. I hope I'm wrong, but given the realities of the market, competition from WN and a desperate UAL, oil at $120+, and a drop in consumer confidence and spending, I fear for the future of most airlines and especially smaller carriers like F9.

Man, this business can really suck. Best of luck F9.