24 hours off in 7 days

[Ty Webb]

Uh.....fractionals. Every other week.

And that, sir, is the reason my happy ass sits on a Boeing seat cushion.

Three days is plenty. By day four, I'm out of underwear, and ready to go home. :laugh:

 

[Networ-King]

And that, sir, is the reason my happy ass sits on a Boeing seat cushion.

Three days is plenty. By day four, I'm out of underwear, and ready to go home. :laugh:

Ha....

Thats funny..... cause I sit my happy arse in a Boeing as well and have a 7 on 7 off schedule, however unlike the fractionals, I went to work 4 days in the last 30 days. Keep your 4 on 3 off schedule and enjoy it. Remember Ty, not all of us have to like the same thing or want the same thing ....eeehhh?

And you wouldn't be out of underwear on the 4th day if you just went commando :laugh:.

As for the 24/7? UPS is different and its contractual as per ZULU dates which is more conservative then the FARs..... The FARs do not specify calender day like someone said above... its 24 hours off in a 7 day period. Good luck trying to convince your scheduling department of your problem, Im sure they'll spin it their own little way.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Pretty sad that on a "Majors" board this subject is even coming up. Who the hell works 6 days under any circumstances, let alone 7?

Ty,
Don't knock it until you try it.

I don't know if you commute or not but I do. I can tell you as a former pax guy at UAL, commuting to a 2-4 day trip and then going home for a couple of days blows compared to "week on, week off".

Willingly doing 4-5 round trip commutes in a month would make me want to hang myself. I do 2 commutes a month max and it is a beautiful thing. The 1 in 7 thing also works in your favor if you are sitting reserve. Unless you get assigned a trip w/ a 24 hour layover, you know you'll get an extra day off somewhere in the week. Many times it's the last day so you get to go home a day early.
:beer:

 

[gutshotdraw]

And that, sir, is the reason my happy ass sits on a Boeing seat cushion.

Three days is plenty. By day four, I'm out of underwear, and ready to go home. :laugh:

Enjoy that Boeing Ty. This week, my very joyful hind end flew exactly 7 legs and was happily seated on a stool in a winery's tasting room sampling the local product for two of my seven days. Next week, it's a business class seat across the pond on a Whale, two whole passenger legs, another business class seat, and then THREE WEEKS off on vacation. I learned how to pack the extra underwear...:beer:

 

[DrewBlows]

I stand corrected then. Come to think of it the specific instance I was thinking of I started reserve at 0001 on day one, so in my situation I couldn't go into the seventh day.

I'm too lazy to look the regulation up so I'll take Split's word on it.

 

[Deadalus]

A little help.....

Flying 6 days in a row with no 24 hour period off. Scheduled to end at 2330 on the sixth day.

If you are late, knowing that your last leg will get you back after midnight are you legal?

Thanks in advance.

This is the voice of your future self. Get out of aviation and enjoy life. Life's way too short to be a willing slave.

 

[regionalcap]

Pretty sad that on a "Majors" board this subject is even coming up. Who the hell works 6 days under any circumstances, let alone 7?

The international guys do it all the time. I agree with you that 4 days on is plenty.

 

[vprMatrix]

Actually, we are all wrong here. It would depend on what time you started duty on day 1 of your six day trip. You need the 24 hour rest in a 7 day span but it doesn't specify "calendar days". You have (6 x 24) hours to finish up your trip so add 144 hours to your report time to figure out what time past 11:30pm you can be on duty until. If the trip started at noon on day 1, you could stay on duty well past your scheduled end time to finish up. Of course you would have to take into account your daily duty limit also.

Actually you were right the first time and everyone else is wrong. :bomb:

24 in 7 (FAR 121.471(d) is considered a Flight Time Limitation and therefor Legal to Start - Legal to Finish (FAR 121.471(g) applies. If fact 121.471(g) applies to all of FAR 121.471 except for Compensatory Rest and since the Whitlow ruling, the look back rest rule. Also, for clarification the 7 days are calender (midnight to midnight) days the 24 hours are any 24 hours during the 7 calender days.


This of course doesn't supersede anyone's contract or the fact that you may be fatigued.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/1991/J.Johnson.rtf[/FONT]

 

[b82rez]

Thanks for the link. Exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Networ-King]

Actually you were right the first time and everyone else is wrong. :bomb:

24 in 7 (FAR 121.471(d) is considered a Flight Time Limitation and therefor Legal to Start - Legal to Finish (FAR 121.471(g) applies. If fact 121.471(g) applies to all of FAR 121.471 except for Compensatory Rest and since the Whitlow ruling, the look back rest rule. Also, for clarification the 7 days are calender (midnight to midnight) days the 24 hours are any 24 hours during the 7 calender days.


This of course doesn't supersede anyone's contract or the fact that you may be fatigued.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/1991/J.Johnson.rtf[/FONT]

Thats weird.....

Heres 121.471............

(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed --

(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;

(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;

(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule a flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time during the 24 consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any flight segment without a scheduled rest period during that 24 hours of at least the following:

(1) 9 consecutive hours of rest for less than 8 hours of scheduled flight time.

(2) 10 consecutive hours of rest for 8 or more but less than 9 hours of scheduled flight time.

(3) 11 consecutive hours of rest for 9 or more hours of scheduled flight time.

(c) A certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember for less than the rest required in paragraph (b) of this section or may reduce a scheduled rest under the following conditions:

(1) A rest required under paragraph (b)(1) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 10 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.

​

(2) A rest required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 11 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.

(3) A rest required under paragraph (b)(3) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 9 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 12 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.

(4) No certificate holder may assign, nor may any flight crewmember perform any flight time with the certificate holder unless the flight crewmember has had at least the minimum rest required under this paragraph.

(d) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.

(e) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept assignment to any duty with the air carrier during any required rest period.

(f) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a certificate holder requires of a flight crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he was relieved from duty to return to his home station, is not considered part of a rest period.

(g) A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.


Now...... I could be wrong, but interpreting the FAR's, to this day, has not been perfected. Thats why POI's see the FAR's totally different to this day..... either way, good luck......

Oh and by the way.... you're link also says 7 consecutive days, not calender days........
​

 

[vprMatrix]

Thats weird.....

Now...... I could be wrong, but interpreting the FAR's, to this day, has not been perfected. Thats why POI's see the FAR's totally different to this day..... either way, good luck......

Oh and by the way.... you're link also says 7 consecutive days, not calender days........
​

This letter was not written by a POI and is consistent with other interpretations and rulings that the FAA has issued.

As for a "Day," it is what it is. 7 "24-hour" periods would most likely be 8 days and is not what the FAR says. It also further distinguishes that you don't need 1 day off just "any" 24 hours. ALPA also agrees with this definition of a day and it is spelled out in the "ALPA Guide to Flight Time Limitations" hand book.

Pretty weird.

 

[rickair7777]

I think the issue here is how exactly to interpret "7 days"...

Conservative Interpretation: Calendar days.

Liberal Interp: 24-hour periods.

Rick's Interp: Calendar Days. If they didn't mean calendar days, they would have specified 144 hours max. "Day" means midnight-to-midnight, otherwsie it's not a "day", but a 24-hour period.

Also, I think the precedent is set in all the other FAR's: 90 days landing currency, etc.

 

[Networ-King]

This letter was not written by a POI and is consistent with other interpretations and rulings that the FAA has issued.

As for a "Day," it is what it is. 7 "24-hour" periods would most likely be 8 days and is not what the FAR says. It also further distinguishes that you don't need 1 day off just "any" 24 hours. ALPA also agrees with this definition of a day and it is spelled out in the "ALPA Guide to Flight Time Limitations" hand book.

Pretty weird.

Dude....

Am I missing something here or are we saying the same damn thing? Re-read my post.... I never said it was a letter for one OR that a POI wrote it. That is FAR 121.471.... and it states 7 Consecutive days and not Calender days.... there is a difference. And to be honest with you.... I really couldn't give a f&^K what alpa has to say about anything.

 

[Fox-Tree]

And to be honest with you.... I really couldn't give a f&^K what alpa has to say about anything.

I'm wichoo brudda - LMAO!! Priceless.

 

[vprMatrix]

Dude....

Am I missing something here or are we saying the same damn thing? Re-read my post.... I never said it was a letter for one OR that a POI wrote it. That is FAR 121.471.... and it states 7 Consecutive days and not Calender days.... there is a difference. And to be honest with you.... I really couldn't give a f&^K what alpa has to say about anything.

Yea. I posted a letter from the FAA's Regulations and Enforcement Division representing the interpretation of 121.471(d) you then posted FAR 121.471 in its entirety and said (I could be wrong, but interpreting the FAR's, to this day, has not been perfected. Thats why POI's see the FAR's totally different to this day..... either way, good luck......) If you didn't mean to imply that the FAA's interpretation, which has been in effect for 16 years, was subject to change at whim then I misunderstood your post.

And since you love ALPA so much try this link for the FAA's idea of a day.

The whole point of this thread was to answer a legitimate question. I have provided facts you have interjected opinion. Feel free to use which ever you like if/when it actual matters.

This ain't rocket science.

:beer: