Delta pilots approve contract changes...

[General Lee]

If you only knew...

...anything.

Thanks Dad. Time to go back in the sims where YOU can control the outcome.....(not in real life though)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General, I know you like to "ride" some of the guys from time to time, but I have the highest regard for Occam. We might disagree on certain things, but I respect his opinions, although I don't always agree, and consider him one of the most informed and level headed posters on FI. Just my 2 cents.

Well, I really am NOT into "riding" guys, not that there is anything wrong with that....But, I am glad you think he is great. For a sim guy, he sure does know a lot... And, he has a great grasp of verbage. He probably scored an 800 on his Verbal SAT 30 years ago.....sooo impressive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

Grow Up.

 

[General Lee]

Grow Up.

I have two dads now? Thanks MOM.........


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

General, FDJ2 and Occam are two of the sharper and more informed posters on the forum- Occam especially. Time to go have a beer in Vienna and step away from the laptop.

 

[RedRum]

I have two dads now? Thanks MOM.........


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee,

Step away from the desk, unplug the AC Adaptor and head outside and have a nice cold beer. Life is good.

I think we will have a joint agreement by Friday and we will all be drinking the Delta Kool-aid real soon. Any one got some vodka I can spike it with. These guys are way too uptight! Loosen up. Maybe undo that top button that seems to be hitting critical mass and acting as a projectile in the terminal!

All in fun.

ONE AIRLILNE ONE CONTRACT

 

[400ADude]

General, FDJ2 and Occam are two of the sharper and more informed posters on the forum- Occam especially. Time to go have a beer in Vienna and step away from the laptop.

He doesn't leave his hotel room. It is scary out there.

 

[Fly4hire]

For a sim guy, he sure does know a lot... And, he has a great grasp of verbage. He probably scored an 800 on his Verbal SAT 30 years ago.....sooo impressive.
Bye Bye--General Lee

GL, don't know about DAL, but at NWA all Sim instructors are regular line pukes, and still fly the line. Occam has been a LEC Chairman, instructs, and flies the line. We don't always agree on politics, and but he's definitely someone you'd want as a wingman when the going gets rough - can anyone say that about you?

 

[Airbus_Driver]

It amazes me how the Delta pilot membership just fall in line to whatever rhetoric the MEC and Moak feeds them, without any concrete data of the long term implications of what they are voting on.

Accepting a contract without SLI with NWA will only repeat what DAL did to Pan Am and NWA did to Republic. It sends an elitist message that "Your fellow colleagues are are not good enough to fit in your shoes". There will be a harboring of great animosity and it will last decades.

The data I am reading from the NWA MEC is troubling. DAL presents us with a seniority ratio of 8:5. When you do the math, you don't even have enough pilots on the property to make that work. There would be a vacancy at the bottom and any DAL new hire would be above an NWA pilot already on the list! Amazing. Do you think we do not know how to add?

DAL also includes in their ratio the equipment you have on order and options yet do not want to include NWAs orders or options? Unbelievable.

We offer fences, you'll have none of it, you want all your pilots at the top even though nearly a 1/3rd of our group will retire in the next 10 years, fine, we offer a dynamic seniority, Moak says no way. DAL offers is own variation of dynamic seniority yet is unwilling to provide any analysis on how it came to its conclusions. Moak says the same thing over and over "Just sign the agreement, you'll be happy". I am not kidding.

When I read in the WSJ on Moak's response to NWA request for arbitration, he said "That an arbitrator would be abdication of leadership". Is he serious? Leadership? He demonstrates anything but leadership. A "take it or leave it" approach, no analysis proposals, a love of the limelight and the camera's is a dangerous combination for a Union leader to take and one that will NEVER have my vote of confidence.

 

[FDJ2]

It amazes me how the Delta pilot membership just fall in line to whatever rhetoric the MEC and Moak feeds them, without any concrete data of the long term implications of what they are voting on.

Accepting a contract without SLI with NWA will only repeat what DAL did to Pan Am and NWA did to Republic. It sends an elitist message that "Your fellow colleagues are are not good enough to fit in your shoes". There will be a harboring of great animosity and it will last decades.

The data I am reading from the NWA MEC is troubling. DAL presents us with a seniority ratio of 8:5. When you do the math, you don't even have enough pilots on the property to make that work. There would be a vacancy at the bottom and any DAL new hire would be above an NWA pilot already on the list! Amazing. Do you think we do not know how to add?

DAL also includes in their ratio the equipment you have on order and options yet do not want to include NWAs orders or options? Unbelievable.

We offer fences, you'll have none of it, you want all your pilots at the top even though nearly a 1/3rd of our group will retire in the next 10 years, fine, we offer a dynamic seniority, Moak says no way. DAL offers is own variation of dynamic seniority yet is unwilling to provide any analysis on how it came to its conclusions. Moak says the same thing over and over "Just sign the agreement, you'll be happy". I am not kidding.

When I read in the WSJ on Moak's response to NWA request for arbitration, he said "That an arbitrator would be abdication of leadership". Is he serious? Leadership? He demonstrates anything but leadership. A "take it or leave it" approach, no analysis proposals, a love of the limelight and the camera's is a dangerous combination for a Union leader to take and one that will NEVER have my vote of confidence.

Talk about "just fall in line to whatever rhetoric the MEC" feeds you. Wow.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

It amazes me how the Delta pilot membership just fall in line to whatever rhetoric the MEC and Moak feeds them, without any concrete data of the long term implications of what they are voting on.

Accepting a contract without SLI with NWA will only repeat what DAL did to Pan Am and NWA did to Republic. It sends an elitist message that "Your fellow colleagues are are not good enough to fit in your shoes". There will be a harboring of great animosity and it will last decades.

The data I am reading from the NWA MEC is troubling. DAL presents us with a seniority ratio of 8:5. When you do the math, you don't even have enough pilots on the property to make that work. There would be a vacancy at the bottom and any DAL new hire would be above an NWA pilot already on the list! Amazing. Do you think we do not know how to add?

DAL also includes in their ratio the equipment you have on order and options yet do not want to include NWAs orders or options? Unbelievable.

We offer fences, you'll have none of it, you want all your pilots at the top even though nearly a 1/3rd of our group will retire in the next 10 years, fine, we offer a dynamic seniority, Moak says no way. DAL offers is own variation of dynamic seniority yet is unwilling to provide any analysis on how it came to its conclusions. Moak says the same thing over and over "Just sign the agreement, you'll be happy". I am not kidding.

When I read in the WSJ on Moak's response to NWA request for arbitration, he said "That an arbitrator would be abdication of leadership". Is he serious? Leadership? He demonstrates anything but leadership. A "take it or leave it" approach, no analysis proposals, a love of the limelight and the camera's is a dangerous combination for a Union leader to take and one that will NEVER have my vote of confidence.

Step away from the koolaid. Don't worry, everyone will be pissed at the seniority arbitration. That is what mergers are about.

 

[General Lee]

General, FDJ2 and Occam are two of the sharper and more informed posters on the forum- Occam especially. Time to go have a beer in Vienna and step away from the laptop.

Hey, I call it like I see it, and I don't care what you think. Occam has his moments, but also thinks he is Colonel Angus, and loves to act like he knows and rules it all. Well, that may be true in his sim, but not in the real world. His grasp of the English language is very impressive though. FDJ2 also speaks well, but he can back up what he says with specific quotes, exact contract points, and also has a knowledge of contract law. But hey, if you want to annoint them the smartest people on here, I have no objections. And, I was in Vienna a few weeks ago. It was a lot of fun.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL, don't know about DAL, but at NWA all Sim instructors are regular line pukes, and still fly the line. Occam has been a LEC Chairman, instructs, and flies the line. We don't always agree on politics, and but he's definitely someone you'd want as a wingman when the going gets rough - can anyone say that about you?

We do have line people doing sims too, but not all of them. That may change for you when we integrate also, to save on costs. As far as Occam being in the mix, that is great. Not everything he has said has become reality. I tend to think that I am a good wingman too, and will fight to prove my point as well. But, the main reason I am on this board is ENTERTAINMENT. I enjoy it. And, I can't wait to fly with my NWA brothers some day---I will make sure I do a few of the walkarounds too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

GL, don't know about DAL, but at NWA all Sim instructors are regular line pukes, and still fly the line. Occam has been a LEC Chairman, instructs, and flies the line. We don't always agree on politics, and but he's definitely someone you'd want as a wingman when the going gets rough - can anyone say that about you?

Who would I want as a friend or a wingman?

Probably not somebody that:

Has 10000 posts on flightinfo

Has multiple usernames with thousands of posts

Argues and debates people using these other usernames (And is serious about it)

Blames other companies for his own employers faults

Brags about International flying layovers while putting other folks down for domestic layovers

Is demeaning to regional pilots and others trying to make a living.

Makes claims about his wife being a VP and how sucessfull he is and how much money he makes:laugh:, while he spits in other peoples faces here (Jetblue, SWA etc.....) then claims he is debating for fun.

It goes on and on and on on.

Absolutely pathetic.

In fact I know who he is.

 

[General Lee]

This message is hidden because 400ADude is on your ignore list.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list

It won't be long before 737pylt logs on:laugh:

 

[General Lee]

General Lee,

Step away from the desk, unplug the AC Adaptor and head outside and have a nice cold beer. Life is good.

I think we will have a joint agreement by Friday and we will all be drinking the Delta Kool-aid real soon. Any one got some vodka I can spike it with. These guys are way too uptight! Loosen up. Maybe undo that top button that seems to be hitting critical mass and acting as a projectile in the terminal!

All in fun.

ONE AIRLILNE ONE CONTRACT

There you go! See, I am just having fun. I also want a strong airline and I look forward to a FAIR integration. Some people have to relax a bit and not take this board soooo seriously. I don't. But, I do enjoy it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[HA25]

What about Compass? Still gonna allow that alter ego operation to continue?

I'm sure the Delta execs are tipping their champagne glasses with big smiles on their faces.

I'd be interested in hearing about this too... what's the consensus on the flow-thru?

 

[Superpilot92]

Keep it up GL you're almost to 11000 posts Congrats on your "achievement"

With that said these really are the most pointless threads. It sure would be nice if some of you would figure out that we are all on the SAME F-ING team!! WTF

 

[Airbus_Driver]

Step away from the koolaid. Don't worry, everyone will be pissed at the seniority arbitration. That is what mergers are about.

See what I mean. "Everything is going to be ok" they say it over and over. Stunning.

This comes from a group that eliminated their FOQA and NASAP programs, has a computer bidding system 3 generations old, and has set the standard for the giveaways in scope language.

 

[Noserider76]

See what I mean. "Everything is going to be ok" they say it over and over. Stunning.

This comes from a group that eliminated their FOQA and NASAP programs, has a computer bidding system 3 generations old, and has set the standard for the giveaways in scope language.

I thought Compass set the standard for scope giveaway. Let's not be too hasty on a joint contract. I hoping for a lot more than the previously negotiated deal if we have to live with it for at least 4 years. The 100 seat replacement needs to be addressed in the contract. The company can not be allowed to merge then shrink the bottom of the list.

 

[737 Pylt]

See what I mean. "Everything is going to be ok" they say it over and over. Stunning.

This comes from a group that eliminated their FOQA and NASAP programs, has a computer bidding system 3 generations old, and has set the standard for the giveaways in scope language.

Actually compass has the honors for that. Please step away from the koolaid!

737

 

[DTW320]

I thought Compass set the standard for scope giveaway. Let's not be too hasty on a joint contract. I hoping for a lot more than the previously negotiated deal if we have to live with it for at least 4 years. The 100 seat replacement needs to be addressed in the contract. The company can not be allowed to merge then shrink the bottom of the list.

You're joking right?!? You really want to compare NWA Scope to DAL's? How many 76 seaters does DAL have to park if they park the DC9's? How many 76 seaters can DAL get for every additional mainline a/c? Hmmmmmmm?

 

[Diesel-9]

Why would anyone drop their FOQA Program? P.S. ScOpE??? At the end of 2007, DAL had 25,000,000 ASM's flown by regionals, NWA had 7,000,000. Any one of DAL's 3 largest Regional Affiliates of the 10 they operate, flew about the same amount of ASM's as NWA's total regional fleet.

 

[JohnQ]

Why would anyone drop their FOQA Program?

Why would an airline drop these great programs? On the insistence of the pilot union, IF management was using data that is supposed to be restricted/confidential/de-identified in order to pursue punitive actions against pilots--definitely NOT in the spirit of FOQA and/or ASAP.

There is are legal venues with which to do that: ASAP and FOQA are not them. If a mgmt team was attempting to use the ASAP/FOQA structure to pursue punitive actions against pilots, then I think it appropriate that the union withdraw their support until their concerns were adequately addressed.

 

[Diesel-9]

We use it in a positive way. The results of standarized approaches and consistant performance allow for insurance rates WELL below the industry average and identify areas to be addressed in initial and annual training.

 

[FDJ2]

You're joking right?!? You really want to compare NWA Scope to DAL's? How many 76 seaters does DAL have to park if they park the DC9's? How many 76 seaters can DAL get for every additional mainline a/c? Hmmmmmmm?

DAL doesn't have DC-9s.

What are the weight restrictions on NWA 76 seaters, what are the weight restrictions on DAL 76 seaters?

Luckily, DAL pilots have adopted the lower cap of NALPA's RJ limits. NALPA would have allowed NWA 90 76 seaters, DALPA reduced that number to 55 once DAL completes the acquisition.

 

[FDJ2]

We use it in a positive way. The results of standarized approaches and consistant performance allow for insurance rates WELL below the industry average and identify areas to be addressed in initial and annual training.

We're glad your management uses it that way. I would hope that if they didn't, you'd drop the program until they did.

 

[Superpilot92]

DAL doesn't have DC-9s.

What are the weight restrictions on NWA 76 seaters, what are the weight restrictions on DAL 76 seaters?

Luckily, DAL pilots have adopted the lower cap of NALPA's RJ limits. NALPA would have allowed NWA 90 76 seaters, DALPA reduced that number to 55 once DAL completes the acquisition.

You know good and well that his comments about the DC9 where under the notion NWA will soon be DAL. NWA has scope language that protects the DC9 flying and positions, DAL does not and in recent history has proven that they were to good to fly "little" airplanes. DALs scope language sucks and NWA's while not perfect is better than DALs.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NALPA would have allowed NWA 90 76 seaters, DALPA reduced that number to 55 once DAL completes the acquisition.

Excellent, thanks for the info.