Delta pilots approve contract changes...

[BigMotorToter]

AP
Delta pilots approve contract revisions
Wednesday May 14, 11:21 am ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Delta Air Lines pilots approve contract revisions by overwhelming margin
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots voted overwhelmingly in favor of changes to their contract that will give them pay raises, an equity stake and other benefits, but also will give management more leeway as part of a proposed combination with Northwest Airlines Corp.
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Voting, which started May 1, ended Wednesday. A letter from the chairman of the union's executive committee, Lee Moak, to fellow pilots said 78 percent of pilots who voted approved of the changes.
The contract covers more than 7,000 pilots at Atlanta-based Delta. Northwest's 5,000 pilots are not part of the agreement.
Delta agreed to extend its existing collective bargaining agreement with its pilots through the end of 2012. The revised contract provides the Delta pilots a 3.5 percent equity stake in the new company.
In exchange, the company will be able to place the Delta code and brand on Northwest flights and retain Northwest's large stake in Midwest Airlines, while maintaining those two carriers' separate operational status.
Delta announced April 14 that it had agreed to acquire Northwest in a stock-swap deal that would create the world's largest carrier. The deal, which calls for the combined carrier to be called Delta and to be based in Atlanta, must be approved by shareholders and regulators. Delta pilots have been granted a voting seat on the board of the combined company.
Union leaders from Delta and Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest hope to work out an agreement on a merged contract and an integrated seniority list. They could not agree on the seniority issue before the combination was announced.
Moak was expected to discuss the proposed combination with lawmakers in Washington later Wednesday.
The two airlines believe the deal is necessary to allow them to be profitable in the future amid fuel prices that have soared to more than $125 a barrel.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Sooo, now our NWA bretheren will rant and rave and point fingers about how we threw you under the bus.

Before you do, realize a few points and also why I voted in favor of it. These are benchmarks and considerable improvements over the current DAL and NWA contract. This has raised the bar just a bit.

Now, let's get this SLI worked out. Then jointly as a 10,500 member strong pilot group we can improve upon what we got today. It certainly won't be any worse; still an improvement over what we seperately have.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Sorry, I think combined we have close to 13000 pilots.

 

[Networ-King]

Just curious......

Not really expecting much as a DAL furloughee/by passer, but anyone have a clue about what the new contract says about someone in my shoes? Staple job, travel bennies, stake in the new Delta, etc....

Again... not expecting anything out of the new contract, just kind of curious.

 

[FBN0223]

Been out of the loop with LOA 19. Would any Delta guys like to give the Cliff Notes version? How about with regards to scope? Thanks in advance.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Been out of the loop with LOA 19. Would any Delta guys like to give the Cliff Notes version? How about with regards to scope? Thanks in advance.

No changes in scope, really. Takes the allowed number of Airlink 76 seaters and adds them to the allowed number of Connection 76 seaters.

 

[123]

Now, let's get this SLI worked out. Then jointly as a 10,500 member strong pilot group we can improve upon what we got today. It certainly won't be any worse; still an improvement over what we seperately have.

Actually, I believe the process will be to negotiate a joint contract before the SLI. We will see just how solid DALPA's intentions were with LOA19 during the joint contract negotiations. If we have a joint deal quickly, no hard feelings and Mr. Moak will probably gain additional NWA pilot support. Feet dragging and no deal for a while my guess is that it will be a long summer and a contentious relationship for years to come.

 

[Superpilot92]

This is talking about LOA 19 right? So the two mecs met this week and should announce the joint contract on Friday hopefully. Thus nullifying loa 19. Hopefully that does change scope to make it tighter.

 

[9rj9]

It may seem like scope didn't change but in reality it did change. You now have double the rjs with NWA, then the cuts to CVG and MEM mailine are coming, Delat/NWA will cut and cut all in the name of high oil. Its really just and end-o-round the scope clause. MD-80/88 gonna be a 100 seater flown by DCI, to be given away for another day off and 3.5% of a stock that has lost 70% of its value.

 

[vprMatrix]

This is talking about LOA 19 right? So the two mecs met this week and should announce the joint contract on Friday hopefully. Thus nullifying loa 19. Hopefully that does change scope to make it tighter.

"Joint Contract on Friday" you heard it here first...:laugh:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

According to the guys on the MEC/LEC that I talked to the guys that are on leave (bypass) are afforded the same rights that the currently have. The one that I found hard to believe is that you get part of the equity pay out as well.

 

[Fly4hire]

Sorry, I think combined we have close to 13000 pilots.

While perhaps a slip, I think your previous number is closer to what we'll see in the end, together with a CH11 and a concessionary contract that is less than what we have at NWA now.

 

[johnsonrod]

Just curious......

Not really expecting much as a DAL furloughee/by passer, but anyone have a clue about what the new contract says about someone in my shoes? Staple job, travel bennies, stake in the new Delta, etc....

Again... not expecting anything out of the new contract, just kind of curious.

Why would you care? You jumped to UPS and you love flying on the back end of the clock. So, if you are so positive about life at UPS, why return to Delta - especially since you continually slam Delta and its pilot group? Second thoughts about your choice?

 

[Draginass]

Looks to me like ALPA got snookered again. Any pay restoration from the huge cuts taken a few years ago is non-existant . . . . does nothing to compensate for even inflation in the past few years and barely covers inflation from next year onwards.

What about Compass? Still gonna allow that alter ego operation to continue?

I'm sure the Delta execs are tipping their champagne glasses with big smiles on their faces.

 

[Superpilot92]

"Joint Contract on Friday" you heard it here first...:laugh:

DAL and NWA MECs met this week to get a joint contract figured out. They were not going to talk about the SLI. The NWA MEC said it will announce on Friday what the results are. Its either going to get announced or its not. That was my point douch3. Thanks for your contribution to the thread though we really appreciate it.

 

[FDJ2]

We will see just how solid DALPA's intentions were with LOA19 during the joint contract negotiations. If we have a joint deal quickly, no hard feelings and Mr. Moak will probably gain additional NWA pilot support. Feet dragging and no deal for a while my guess is that it will be a long summer and a contentious relationship for years to come.

Joint contract negotiations will be a three way street. Every one knows how the NWA pilots like to point fingures at others, but if it takes time, it takes time. Hopefully not long, but it's not as if Moak can snap his fingures and deliver a joint contract. Stevens and Anderson will share the responsibility for getting it done.

 

[FDJ2]

So the two mecs met this week and should announce the joint contract on Friday hopefully.

The two MEC's actually have to meet with management also to get a joint contract. Management then has to agree. It's not as if the two MEC's meet and produce a joint contract.

Hopefully we will get something that is mutually beneficial to all involved in short order. By Friday may be a bit optimistic.

 

[Schwanker]

Every one knows how the NWA pilots like to point fingures at others,

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

 

[fam62c]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

 

[General Lee]

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

Someone needs a hug.

 

[General Lee]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim..

If you only knew...

...anything.

 

[michael707767]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

For the record, this was a huge issue to me and why I was one of the minority who voted no. That said, it was an easy no vote because I knew this LOA would pass by a large margin and my vote really didn't matter.

 

[LocoPiloto]

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So what are they? Please tell me you did not just vote yes on a contract that once again guts SCOPE, because you have been told there are protections for that...

DAL let the cat out of the bag in 2000. Yes, you guys picked up huge pay raises, however you farmed out out ALMOST 50%!!!!!! of your ASMs to your regional feed.


Please tell me you did not sell out a bunch more 70-90 seat jet flying for a couple of single digit pay raises that can be taken away in the blink of an eye.

In case you hadn't figured it out, it is a heck of a lot harder to regain lost flying than it is to regain pay.


Loco

 

[Schwanker]

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Of course FDJ2 knows more than anyone. God couldn't keep a secret from him as he's all seeing and all knowing. It doesn't mean he's not a du<he bag!

 

[FDJ2]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

Hopefully the following will answer your questions. These are just excerpts from the Midwest LOA and a Negotiator Note Pad. I'll highlight some sections that may be of interest. All this information was made available to the Delta pilots before the vote. Each pilot made his own assessment of whether or not the protections are adequate. The entire LOA covering Midwest is full of a great deal of legalese. Essentially, no more than 47% ownership, no DAL control of Midwest, no DAL mamnagement of Midwest, no aircraft transfers, any code sharing with Midwest needs to be negotiated.


Negotiator Note Pad April 15, 2008

Limitations on the Midwest Express investment previously made by NWA. This allows the Company to maintain its investment in Midwest (previously owned by Northwest) but limits the control by the Company of Midwest and requires both sides to discuss a codeshare relationship in the future.


Midwest LOA


NOW THEREFORE, it is mutually agreed:

1. Delta or an affiliate will not be considered to control Midwest under Sections 1 B. 16. a. 1) and 2) nor to have acquired control of Midwest under Section 1 D. 8. of the PWA as long as the percentage of securities owned by Delta or the affiliate constitutes no more than 47 percent of the outstanding common stock or voting power (as determined under Sections 1 B. 16. a. 1) and 2)) of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate (including Air Group), (the “permissible percentage ownership”)…………..

a.Delta or an affiliate is not in any way involved in the management or operation of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate, including with regard to the acquisition or lease of aircraft by Midwest or a Midwest affiliate,

b. Delta or an affiliate does not, directly or indirectly, make an equity investment in Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) after the date of this LOA, including, without limitation, through the purchase of stock in Air Group of any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest), whether voting or non-voting, whether issuable pursuant to options, warrants, convertible or exchangeable securities or otherwise,

c. Delta or an affiliate does not control Midwest or a Midwest affiliate as defined in Sections 1 B. 16. b. through f. of the PWA,

d. Delta or an affiliate does not transfer either directly or indirectly to Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) any aircraft owned, leased, operated or on order or option by or on behalf of Delta or an affiliate, and

e. Delta will review with the Association any plans for any codeshare agreement between Delta and Midwest. Before Delta or an affiliate conclude any such codeshare agreement, and before DCC, Delta and the Association will meet for the purposes ofnegotiating new terms applicable to such codeshare agreement.

2. If either Delta or an affiliate (a) exceeds the 47 percent limit set forth in paragraph 1 of this LOA, (b) controls Midwest as defined in Sections 1 B. 16. b. through f., (c) is in any way involved in the management or operation of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate (as set forth in paragraph 1. a. of this LOA), (d) makes an equity investment in Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) (as set forth in paragraph 1. b. of this LOA) or (e) transfers aircraft either directly or indirectly to Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest), then the Association will have the right at its sole discretion through written notice to Delta to determine that Midwest is an “acquired airline” under Section 1 D. 8. of the PWA, requiring Delta to follow the procedures set forth in Section 1 D. 8. a. through e. with respect to Midwest and its affiliates.

 

[ThisistheDream]

There are is no reason to point fingers. DAL pilots made the contract better. When the merger gets approved there will be one CONTRACT for ALL 13,000 pilots ..the one the DAL pilots just voted in. So ALL will be happy as far as contract goes.

 

[800Dog]

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You mean you did not seek out the answer to this question before voting yes to LOA19?

 

[FDJ2]

He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....
Bye Bye--General Lee

General, I know you like to "ride" some of the guys from time to time, but I have the highest regard for Occam. We might disagree on certain things, but I respect his opinions, although I don't always agree, and consider him one of the most informed and level headed posters on FI. Just my 2 cents.