Delta pilots approve contract changes...

[FDJ2]

We will see just how solid DALPA's intentions were with LOA19 during the joint contract negotiations. If we have a joint deal quickly, no hard feelings and Mr. Moak will probably gain additional NWA pilot support. Feet dragging and no deal for a while my guess is that it will be a long summer and a contentious relationship for years to come.

Joint contract negotiations will be a three way street. Every one knows how the NWA pilots like to point fingures at others, but if it takes time, it takes time. Hopefully not long, but it's not as if Moak can snap his fingures and deliver a joint contract. Stevens and Anderson will share the responsibility for getting it done.

 

[FDJ2]

So the two mecs met this week and should announce the joint contract on Friday hopefully.

The two MEC's actually have to meet with management also to get a joint contract. Management then has to agree. It's not as if the two MEC's meet and produce a joint contract.

Hopefully we will get something that is mutually beneficial to all involved in short order. By Friday may be a bit optimistic.

 

[Schwanker]

Every one knows how the NWA pilots like to point fingures at others,

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

 

[fam62c]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

 

[General Lee]

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

You can kiss my A$$. It's du<he bags like you with over inflated egos that's the problem. I can only dream to be as good as FDJ2 thinks he is.

Someone needs a hug.

 

[General Lee]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim..

If you only knew...

...anything.

 

[michael707767]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

For the record, this was a huge issue to me and why I was one of the minority who voted no. That said, it was an easy no vote because I knew this LOA would pass by a large margin and my vote really didn't matter.

 

[LocoPiloto]

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So what are they? Please tell me you did not just vote yes on a contract that once again guts SCOPE, because you have been told there are protections for that...

DAL let the cat out of the bag in 2000. Yes, you guys picked up huge pay raises, however you farmed out out ALMOST 50%!!!!!! of your ASMs to your regional feed.


Please tell me you did not sell out a bunch more 70-90 seat jet flying for a couple of single digit pay raises that can be taken away in the blink of an eye.

In case you hadn't figured it out, it is a heck of a lot harder to regain lost flying than it is to regain pay.


Loco

 

[Schwanker]

He actually does know what he is talking about, and is right there in the mix. He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Of course FDJ2 knows more than anyone. God couldn't keep a secret from him as he's all seeing and all knowing. It doesn't mean he's not a du<he bag!

 

[FDJ2]

In regard to scope: what about allowing a large minority ownership stake in Midwest and code sharing with them? They fly MD-80's and 717's isn't that kind of giving away the store? Would you let Comair, Skywest, Mesa, Pinnacle, etc. fly an MD-80 under your code? Are there any limits on growth at Midwest or work transfer to Midwest? What would prevent the company from placing 100 seaters at Midwest and using to do NWA/DAL flying as long as Midwest remains "independent?" Just wondering.

Hopefully the following will answer your questions. These are just excerpts from the Midwest LOA and a Negotiator Note Pad. I'll highlight some sections that may be of interest. All this information was made available to the Delta pilots before the vote. Each pilot made his own assessment of whether or not the protections are adequate. The entire LOA covering Midwest is full of a great deal of legalese. Essentially, no more than 47% ownership, no DAL control of Midwest, no DAL mamnagement of Midwest, no aircraft transfers, any code sharing with Midwest needs to be negotiated.


Negotiator Note Pad April 15, 2008

Limitations on the Midwest Express investment previously made by NWA. This allows the Company to maintain its investment in Midwest (previously owned by Northwest) but limits the control by the Company of Midwest and requires both sides to discuss a codeshare relationship in the future.


Midwest LOA


NOW THEREFORE, it is mutually agreed:

1. Delta or an affiliate will not be considered to control Midwest under Sections 1 B. 16. a. 1) and 2) nor to have acquired control of Midwest under Section 1 D. 8. of the PWA as long as the percentage of securities owned by Delta or the affiliate constitutes no more than 47 percent of the outstanding common stock or voting power (as determined under Sections 1 B. 16. a. 1) and 2)) of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate (including Air Group), (the “permissible percentage ownership”)…………..

a.Delta or an affiliate is not in any way involved in the management or operation of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate, including with regard to the acquisition or lease of aircraft by Midwest or a Midwest affiliate,

b. Delta or an affiliate does not, directly or indirectly, make an equity investment in Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) after the date of this LOA, including, without limitation, through the purchase of stock in Air Group of any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest), whether voting or non-voting, whether issuable pursuant to options, warrants, convertible or exchangeable securities or otherwise,

c. Delta or an affiliate does not control Midwest or a Midwest affiliate as defined in Sections 1 B. 16. b. through f. of the PWA,

d. Delta or an affiliate does not transfer either directly or indirectly to Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) any aircraft owned, leased, operated or on order or option by or on behalf of Delta or an affiliate, and

e. Delta will review with the Association any plans for any codeshare agreement between Delta and Midwest. Before Delta or an affiliate conclude any such codeshare agreement, and before DCC, Delta and the Association will meet for the purposes ofnegotiating new terms applicable to such codeshare agreement.

2. If either Delta or an affiliate (a) exceeds the 47 percent limit set forth in paragraph 1 of this LOA, (b) controls Midwest as defined in Sections 1 B. 16. b. through f., (c) is in any way involved in the management or operation of Midwest or any Midwest affiliate (as set forth in paragraph 1. a. of this LOA), (d) makes an equity investment in Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest) (as set forth in paragraph 1. b. of this LOA) or (e) transfers aircraft either directly or indirectly to Air Group or any of its subsidiaries or controlled affiliates (including Midwest), then the Association will have the right at its sole discretion through written notice to Delta to determine that Midwest is an “acquired airline” under Section 1 D. 8. of the PWA, requiring Delta to follow the procedures set forth in Section 1 D. 8. a. through e. with respect to Midwest and its affiliates.

 

[ThisistheDream]

There are is no reason to point fingers. DAL pilots made the contract better. When the merger gets approved there will be one CONTRACT for ALL 13,000 pilots ..the one the DAL pilots just voted in. So ALL will be happy as far as contract goes.

 

[800Dog]

I have been told there are protections for that. Maybe FDJ2 can expound on that. I think ANYONE could see that as a potential problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You mean you did not seek out the answer to this question before voting yes to LOA19?

 

[FDJ2]

He doesn't hear it third hand like Oscam when he is in the sim.....
Bye Bye--General Lee

General, I know you like to "ride" some of the guys from time to time, but I have the highest regard for Occam. We might disagree on certain things, but I respect his opinions, although I don't always agree, and consider him one of the most informed and level headed posters on FI. Just my 2 cents.