A letter to Leo

[jetflier]

This was letter sent to me and I'm posting it here so that an intelligent discussion may happen on FI...

"I am sure you don�t remember me but we met during the NWA strike. I was the xxxxxx on the SPC.

Lee, you have more than disappointed me concerning your handling of your fellow association pilots here at NWA. I consider your actions to be treasonous and divisive in moving forward as a group. No matter how you attempt to spin it, if your LOA 19 is passed you have permanently disenfranchised the NWA pilots which will only perpetuate a severely disharmonious group that will falter with associated infighting for decades.

In the process, your attempts to solidify pre-merger Delta pilot�s position over NWA pilots will severely damage this association as a whole. You have ruined which had the possibility of being one of the strongest opponents to management ALPA has ever seen. You have fallen right into management�s hands and created disunity among this potentially powerful group. There is nothing but internal strife ahead for all of us if this merger does in fact go through in its present form. There is long road in front of all of us and I believe you have sorely underestimated NWA pilot�s resolve and its stubborn indignation.

I hope you enjoy your paragraph in Flying the Line Lee. I do not think history will look kindly on your lack of integrity to your fellow ALPA pilots.

�Strode to the podium dressed in a crisp airline captain's uniform and unabashedly soaked up the applause� by management! Pretty much says it all Lee.

No return response desired.

XXXXXXXXXXX
NWA ALPA Pilot"

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

So, because you can't negotiate your own pay raise, I can't have one either? WTFO?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Prater has gone on record to say he is going to sign LOA 19 because it sets a floor for future pay negotiations.

He also has stated that NWA should have parity on day one of a joint agreement.

That makes sense. He also wrote that ALPA National will provide mediation to help the sides get together before going down the road to outside arbitration.

Guys, think for yourself and don't just buy into the propraganda. Leadership is not just pointing and calling names.

Everything considered at the present time, ALPA is doing a good job.

 

[Fly4hire]

So, because you can't negotiate your own pay raise, I can't have one either? WTFO?

Actually WE had negotiated a better JOINT contract, but Moak wanted it only at the cost of buying it with a disproportionate, lopsided SLI that negated any advantage of the joint contract.

One of your favourite sound bites de'jour is the NWA pilots are costing you money - you are costing yourselves money with lopsided propsals that will never pass muster with our MEC.

You say the train is leaving the station with or without us - given that we don't know the destination, and it might well be a train "to the east" that's just fine if it goes without us.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly4hire:

Where do you want to see this go? What do you want? What are your solutions?

Lets make you Lee Moak for a day. What would you do?

 

[737 Pylt]

Actually WE had negotiated a better JOINT contract, but Moak wanted it only at the cost of buying it with a disproportionate, lopsided SLI that negated any advantage of the joint contract.

No, what we had was the NWA MEC's failure to move on DOH and walk away from the negotiating table!
<see how easy it is to make false accusations?>
It gets nowhere!

One of your favourite sound bites de'jour is the NWA pilots are costing you money - you are costing yourselves money with lopsided propsals that will never pass muster with our MEC.

Nothing ever passes muster with your MEC, that's why you guys always go to arbitration. It sure is easier to pass the buck then to actually do what you're elected to do

You say the train is leaving the station with or without us - given that we don't know the destination, and it might well be a train "to the east" that's just fine if it goes without us.

See you later then!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

You say the train is leaving the station with or without us - given that we don't know the destination, and it might well be a train "to the east" that's just fine if it goes without us.

Just barking at the train as it goes by has no effect on it's operation.
Running out in front of the train has a predictable result.
The only way to go anywhere is to jump on board.

 

[737 Pylt]

Just barking at the train as it goes by has no effect on it's operation.
Running out in front of the train has a predictable result.
The only way to go anywhere is to jump on board.

But then where will that leave them in the blame game?

737

 

[Fly4hire]

Fly4hire:

Where do you want to see this go? What do you want? What are your solutions?

Lets make you Lee Moak for a day. What would you do?

1) Recognize that the NWA pilots bring substantial strengths to the combined airline - that we are a far stronger pilot group working together than we are as separate parts. Stop selectively dismissing acft assets and positions, and vilifying the NWA pilot group, and as a pretext for pillaging it. While DAL Inc. is aquiring NWA Inc., DALPA is still merging the SL with NWALPA.

2) Acknowledge that DAL is only slightly more than 20% larger than NWA, and this is very much a merger of equals. Stop pursuing a SLI that gives DAL an almost 48% advantage and gets more so over time.

3) Pursue an SLI that will provide for long term unity to capitalize on the strength of the unity of the combined group as opposed to pursuing short term gains at the expense of future strength.

4) Understand I have struck a faustian bargain with RA on LOA 19, and the only way out is to work together with the NWA MEC.

5) Do the honorable thing and back off from some the unrealistic promises made in order to facilitate the deal, then fall on a grenade (resign) in order to save face and your legacy.

 

[michael707767]

2) Acknowledge that DAL is only slightly more than 20% larger than NWA, and this is very much a merger of equals. Stop pursuing a SLI that gives DAL an almost 48% advantage and gets more so over time.

please tell me how any proposal, even a straight percentage merger, gives the DL pilots a 48% advantage.

 

[JOPILOT]

Finally voted YES for LOA 19, reasoning is our LEC informed me on a recent 4 day we flew that NWA pilots will be given contract parity at the day of Corporate Closure and that the list will most likely go to arbitration at that point. Why not save the improvements as a base for our joint contract and let the SLI fall where it may, probably not to NWA MEC's liking, but it will be "fair" right?

JP

 

[Noserider76]

1) Recognize that the NWA pilots bring substantial strengths to the combined airline - that we are a far stronger pilot group working together than we are as separate parts. Stop selectively dismissing acft assets and positions, and vilifying the NWA pilot group, and as a pretext for pillaging it. While DAL Inc. is aquiring NWA Inc., DALPA is still merging the SL with NWALPA.

2) Acknowledge that DAL is only slightly more than 20% larger than NWA, and this is very much a merger of equals. Stop pursuing a SLI that gives DAL an almost 48% advantage and gets more so over time.

3) Pursue an SLI that will provide for long term unity to capitalize on the strength of the unity of the combined group as opposed to pursuing short term gains at the expense of future strength.

4) Understand I have struck a faustian bargain with RA on LOA 19, and the only way out is to work together with the NWA MEC.

5) Do the honorable thing and back off from some the unrealistic promises made in order to facilitate the deal, then fall on a grenade (resign) in order to save face and your legacy.

The blame seems to be coming strictly from your side of the fence. Time to move on. Now you (and us) seem to be making arguements only to better position yourself in the SLI. Understandable. You say you want a fair SLI. So do I. The problem is that fairness is in the eye of the beholder. What you think is fair, I see as a screw job and vice versa. The issues have been hashed and rehashed.

We'll all be pissed when the results are out but at least your side we'll be getting very large pay raises. How we handle ourselves when we're pissed off will determine whether this is a good place to work or just a job.

 

[Jet Wash]

Actually WE had negotiated a better JOINT contract, but Moak wanted it only at the cost of buying it with a disproportionate, lopsided SLI that negated any advantage of the joint contract.

One of your favourite sound bites de'jour is the NWA pilots are costing you money - you are costing yourselves money with lopsided propsals that will never pass muster with our MEC.

You say the train is leaving the station with or without us - given that we don't know the destination, and it might well be a train "to the east" that's just fine if it goes without us.

How do you know this? No one actually knows (except the people directly involved in negotiations) what each side was offering. It seems in the best interests of both pilot groups to have a higher starting point to negotiate a joint contract (ie, Delta guys passing LOA 19). In the long run, both pilot groups benefit from LOA 19.

 

[whyfly]

Fly4Hire,are you sure?

Do you know with absolute certainty what the SLI positions were?
I have heard a multitude of versions with differing spin DEPENDING from whose side they originated.
Like most things in life I doubt the REAL,100%, story is being told. Most likely the truth is somewhere in the middle.
It appears the only certainty is a merger and two pilot groups who will have to coexist for years and for some of us decades.
I choose not to fester over this because life is TOO short . How do you want to live your life ????

 

[Fly4hire]

please tell me how any proposal, even a straight percentage merger, gives the DL pilots a 48% advantage.

Simple - it never was a straight percentage ratio - when double standards for staffing, WB numbers, aircraft options, and credit for 1000 DAL pilots not yet hired were used to staff not yet ordered aircraft you give yourself a larger effective list to do the SLI with.