A letter to Leo

[GogglesPisano]

Who's Leo?

 

[Fly4hire]

The blame seems to be coming strictly from your side of the fence.

Well of course - you are defending a windfall.

What you think is fair, I see as a screw job and vice versa. The issues have been hashed and rehashed.

Rehashed but not resolved.

DAL is ~20% larger than our pilot group and I expect you to enjoy ~a 20% SLI advantage. I expect to lose something in the SLI.

What I do not expect and will not accept is a ~50% advantage DAL at the expense of NRD future careers

We'll all be pissed when the results are out but at least your side we'll be getting very large pay raises.

Pay raises are temporary - if oil stays where it is it will be very temporary. SLI is forever.

 

[RedRum]

So, because you can't negotiate your own pay raise, I can't have one either? WTFO?

Capt,

No, we could not negotiate our own pay raise because you have to look at who we are dealing with. Northwest Airlines management no longer has any dog in this fight. We tried to approach them and they basically told us we were on our own.

All this being said, you guys secured your future with YOUR management and took advantage of the process. If the shoe were on the other foot, NWA pilots would not have done this. I can honestly say this. Partly due to the fact that our management team has never done any favors for us.

So when is Lee Moak up for his position on the DAL Board of Directors? He really dissapointed a lot of people here at NWA. Has your membership tried to inhibit his move to management? I would be willing to bet that any such effort to prevent Moak's "upgrade" to the BOD would be met with a lot of resistance on his part. He is laying the foundation right now and breaking down solidarity within this association of pilots.

I still see the next 2 days as a golden opportunity to get this thing back in the right direction. Hopefully all Letter 19 was intended to do is leverage us back into more direct negotiations. We, at NWA, have a lot to bring to the table and we are not a US Airways-type company. We aren't drawing a line in the sand and we don't want to create a windfall. We just want what is fair. Heck we are coming out ahead right off the bat getting rid of Doug Steenland. We are bringing $3 BIL to the table. $3BIL in blood money extracted from contract employees on our last TA.

Just my honest opinion. Like i said, it's nothing personal. I hope we can get something done in the next 2 weeks.

 

[RedRum]

Finally voted YES for LOA 19, reasoning is our LEC informed me on a recent 4 day we flew that NWA pilots will be given contract parity at the day of Corporate Closure and that the list will most likely go to arbitration at that point. Why not save the improvements as a base for our joint contract and let the SLI fall where it may, probably not to NWA MEC's liking, but it will be "fair" right?

JP

JP,

The reason we are opposed to the merger in its present form is that on the Date of Corporate Closure we will both be operating under separate working agreements? There will be NO pay parity until we come up with a joint contract.

Whoever informed you that we would be brought to pay parity is just not giving you the straight facts. I understand why you voted yes. You are securing your future for your family and your career at Delta. I can't even begin to blame you for voting yes. If it were me I would have voted yes too. HOWEVER, it should have never come down to this if both sides felt the same about securing the futures of both pilot groups. I don't expect your group to simply vote no and walk away from guaranteed mid-contract imporovements. It is just not realistic to believe that would happen.

Again, just hope Letter 19 never comes to pass and we can get a joint agreement by the end of the month.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Pay raises are temporary - if oil stays where it is it will be very temporary. SLI is forever.

And that is why I am hoping we drag this SLI as long as possible. I believe this fall with oil above 100$ a barrel, A/C will be parked, lots more than planned, along with pilots. I do not want to be in a list with DC9s in it.

If we complete the SLI by christmas it would be a fair indication of actual list of possible furloughs, anytime before then, NWA will benefit a great deal.

I just hope this SLI will include furloughs totally connected to type of A/C parked. Example: 15% of A/C parked are NWA. 15% of furloughs will come from NWA pilots and viceversa. I don't think anybody can dispute that.

I also don't understand why NWA piltos will get pay parity. They should not get anything they haven't negotiated themselves. After all this is DALPA deal for DAL pilots, if NWALPA wants a deal, work it out on your own, or play nice and let us get a great contract together.

 

[FBN0223]

I just hope this SLI will include furloughs totally connected to type of A/C parked. Example: 15% of A/C parked are NWA. 15% of furloughs will come from NWA pilots and viceversa. I don't think anybody can dispute that.

If that's is your position, then advancements with NWA aircraft orders should be solely on the NWA side. In other words, when the B787 arrives Delta pilots would be ineligible to bid any B787 positions.

 

[~~~^~~~]

DAL is ~20% larger than our pilot group and I expect you to enjoy ~a 20% SLI advantage. I expect to lose something in the SLI.

What does that mean? Please explain it in terms so simple even a former tailwheel pilot can understand.

It would seem like relative seniority was a 0% advantage for either side on SLI.

Then there other issues:

• Delta's larger number of retirements
• Delta's fleet or larger, better paying, aircraft
• NWA's fleet of DC9's and prior announcements to replace them with RJ's
• Northwest's earlier retirements, by 3 to 5 years

I still have not found any precedent for NWA's dynamic seniority idea, other than the way they kept Howard the Duck in a cage for 20 years. Even so, then benefit to you of a "dynamic list" hinges on whether there will be enough movement for you to hold Captain in your desired equipment before the other side's dynamic movement overcomes yours and you stagnate.

Also, how do you balance the stagnation? If there is a aircraft retirement along with the other side's stagnation you get a seniority/equipment inversion that gets real ugly if there are displacements. It would be hard for the Company to accept such a solution and hard for the pilots involved.

In your responses to being Lee Moak for a day, you do realize that he has already acted on 3 of your suggestions in writing. I'm still trying to figure out your SLI position which might make it 4 of 5.

With regard to "promises" which promises do you refer to? Keeping Delta pilots' seniority intact? Can you elaborate on the promises?

I'm not yanking your chain... it is good that you get on the board and we can compare notes on what each other are thinking, what you think is fair. It is a useful exchange to learn new things and manage expectations. Really, how would you do the SLI? Dynamic with Ratio's, relative seniority?

I'd like relative seniority by AC type based on what max equipment you could hold currently at your airline. Your turn.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Well of course - you are defending a windfall.

Well, I for one saw the ACTUAL NWALPA proposal and the DALPA proposal. Don't ask me how but, I did. I am not bound by any non-disclosure agreements so I guess I can spout off a little. So, here goes...

With the DALPA proposal I would be at +/- 0% of my present prosition. No change.

With the NWALPA proposal I would be at -.97% of my current position. Almost one percent decrease in overall seniority. But, I am near the bottom so the bottom I will still be.

However, with the NWAPLA SLI, the top 400 were all NWA. The next 400 were DAL. After that most of the next 8000ish were +6% for NWA and -6% for DAL. The bottom 2000 were almost all DAL with a few NWA such as the recent new-hires.

I think the windfall was squarely with NWA on that one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Capt.

Thank you for your confirmation of what everyone else has been saying, but has not seen.

Also agree with your opinion.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Capt.

Thank you for your confirmation of what everyone else has been saying, but has not seen.

Also agree with your opinion.

Problem is, no one will believe me anyway.

 

[michael707767]

Problem is, no one will believe me anyway.

I believe you. One of my LEC reps, who also saw both proposals, told me almost exactly the same thing about the NWA position. Our last position was defendable and the NWA position was such an incredible windfall for the NWA pilots it's no wonder Lee walked away. He should have.

 

[Meiguy]

I just hope this SLI will include furloughs totally connected to type of A/C parked. Example: 15% of A/C parked are NWA. 15% of furloughs will come from NWA pilots and viceversa. I don't think anybody can dispute that.

I understand your position here but that wouldn't work. With a combined fleet the business plans change on both sides. If oil keeps going up and planes are parked they would come off the master fleet list. Ya the DC-9s may be parked first but 88's would be parked just as fast at DAL on a stand alone plan. So I don't think what your saying would be fair. What would be fair is a relative seniority list all the way to the bottom. If planes are parked on the combined fleet regardless of what type it is both sides should feel the negative effects.

 

[Fly4hire]

Well, I for one saw the ACTUAL NWALPA proposal and the DALPA proposal. Don't ask me how but, I did. I am not bound by any non-disclosure agreements so I guess I can spout off a little. So, here goes...

I think the windfall was squarely with NWA on that one.

I understand there were something like 5 actual proposals between the opener and the "take it or leave it"

EXACTLY which one did you see?

In our Road Show they showed both the graphical and numerical fallout of each proposal based on day 2, year 1, 5, 10, and 15.

The only one that advantaged NWA was DOH, that was never a serious consideration by either side.

 

[Superpilot92]

You guys just cant stop the BS can you? Its amazing that we are all in the same Union. When its all said and done will we not all be Delta airlines pilots hopefully fighting for the same things? Both sides need to stop fighting each other and the BS bickering is pointless.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

EXACTLY which one did you see?

The last one.