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ALPA love

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Bdfg1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Posts
347
ITEM 5: ALPA National Updates
5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of
pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West,
Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall
in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues. The ALPA
Executive Council and Executive Board, at its recent meeting this
week, took action on two items that will help close the gap on this
funding shortfall.
The first initiative passed by the Council and the Board were the
adoption of two resolutions to change both the Constitution and By-
Laws and the Administrative Manual to allow 401(k) contributions to
be subject to ALPA dues for all ALPA pilots. Current policy exempts
401(k) contributions from dues if a 401(k) plan is the only form of
retirement plan available to a pilot group, such as here at PSA. If a
pilot group had access to a Defined Contribution or similar plan,
their 401(k) contributions would be subject to dues. With the
freezing or elimination of virtually all of these available plans at
those carriers, the pilots of those carriers find themselves paying
dues on 401(k) contributions while that plan is their sole remaining
retirement vehicle. In the interest of fairness and with
consideration of the fiscal shortfall, the Council and Board adopted
the proposed resolutions to subject all 401(k) contributions to ALPA
dues. This change will not take effect until it is approved by a 2/3
majority vote of the Board of Directors.
The second initiative passed by the Council and the Board was the
adoption of a resolution to change the way LEC surpluses are handled
by the Association. Currently, LEC budgets are funded from the
Administrative and Support (A&S) account based on a per capita rate
for each pilot in that domicile, with any LEC budget surpluses at the
end of the year being credited to that airline's MEC account for use
in the future. The resolution adopted by the Council and Board will
change policy to direct any LEC budget surpluses back to the A&S
account at the end of each year. This change will help close the
shortfall in A&S account funding and preserve the services available
to pilots, LEC's, and MEC's from the Association.
 
Looking out for love
In the night so still
Oh I'll build you a kingdom
In that house on the hill
Looking out for love
Big, big love
You said that you love me
And that you always will
Oh you begged me to keep you
In that house on the hill
Looking out for love
Big, big love
I wake up alone
With it all
I wake up
But only to fall
Looking out for love
Big, big love
Just looking out for love
Big, big love
 
Sure is. If you can't see it then you are dumber than I ever gave you credit for.

I fail to see the connection between ALPA fiscal responsibility and "ALPA love".

Perhaps your statement on "ALPA love" was rhetorical and you actually think you and your MEC/LEC are getting screwed on these initiatives. What I think you fail to realize how horribly screwed we all are if ALPA goes bankrupt. Difficult times are ahead, difficult decisions are needed.
 
ITEM 5: ALPA National Updates
5a: In light of the recent or impending loss of a large number of
pilots from ALPA, including those from US Airways, America West,
Skyway, Aloha, ATA, and Champion, ALPA faces a significant shortfall
in its operating budget from diminished dues revenues. The ALPA
Executive Council and Executive Board, at its recent meeting this
week, took action on two items that will help close the gap on this
funding shortfall.
The first initiative passed by the Council and the Board were the
adoption of two resolutions to change both the Constitution and By-
Laws and the Administrative Manual to allow 401(k) contributions to
be subject to ALPA dues for all ALPA pilots. Current policy exempts
401(k) contributions from dues if a 401(k) plan is the only form of
retirement plan available to a pilot group, such as here at PSA. If a
pilot group had access to a Defined Contribution or similar plan,
their 401(k) contributions would be subject to dues. With the
freezing or elimination of virtually all of these available plans at
those carriers, the pilots of those carriers find themselves paying
dues on 401(k) contributions while that plan is their sole remaining
retirement vehicle. In the interest of fairness and with
consideration of the fiscal shortfall, the Council and Board adopted
the proposed resolutions to subject all 401(k) contributions to ALPA
dues. This change will not take effect until it is approved by a 2/3
majority vote of the Board of Directors.
The second initiative passed by the Council and the Board was the
adoption of a resolution to change the way LEC surpluses are handled
by the Association. Currently, LEC budgets are funded from the
Administrative and Support (A&S) account based on a per capita rate
for each pilot in that domicile, with any LEC budget surpluses at the
end of the year being credited to that airline's MEC account for use
in the future. The resolution adopted by the Council and Board will
change policy to direct any LEC budget surpluses back to the A&S
account at the end of each year. This change will help close the
shortfall in A&S account funding and preserve the services available
to pilots, LEC's, and MEC's from the Association.

I just finished a night of drinking on the overnight. Can somebody translate this into 3 sentences or less for me? If not, I guess I'll just read it in the morning when I can think straight.
 
Maybe Prater and co should take a pay cut to save ALPA.... not the membership paying more dues for his incompetence.
 
Looking out for love
In the night so still
Oh I'll build you a kingdom
In that house on the hill
Looking out for love
Big, big love
You said that you love me
And that you always will
Oh you begged me to keep you
In that house on the hill
Looking out for love
Big, big love
I wake up alone
With it all
I wake up
But only to fall
Looking out for love
Big, big love
Just looking out for love
Big, big love

Took me a couple minutes to figure that one out. I don't know how it is humanly possible for Lindsey to play that guitar track all by himself. Just incredible.
 
I just finished a night of drinking on the overnight. Can somebody translate this into 3 sentences or less for me? If not, I guess I'll just read it in the morning when I can think straight.

Sure thing. ALPA membership is down because airlines shut down, and you're going to get it in the ass so they can make up for all the lost dues. Anything you save for retirement is now subject to union dues.
 
wow

They will basically get 2% of your retirement plus the money your would have earned on it.

So if you maxed out the 401K at 15,500/year, they would get 330 per year or 9300 dollars for a 30 year career. If invested at 8% ALPA gets around 51,700 dollars over a 30 year career.
 
They will basically get 2% of your retirement plus the money your would have earned on it.

So if you maxed out the 401K at 15,500/year, they would get 330 per year or 9300 dollars for a 30 year career. If invested at 8% ALPA gets around 51,700 dollars over a 30 year career.

You fail at reading comprehension. They get their cut of your contributions, not earnings.
 
Took me a couple minutes to figure that one out. I don't know how it is humanly possible for Lindsey to play that guitar track all by himself. Just incredible.


LB is quite the rocker... too bad he wasted allot of his talent on nose candy etc..


I don't care for ALPA going after dues money via the 401k. Might have to get a grassroots movement going for the 2008BOD.


The reason why ALPA is doing this is because we all failed.

The leadership failed to keep ALPA together. (USAPA)
The membership failed to keep ALPA together.

I'd rather all of us work a bit harder and keep our money then get tapped in the the 401k.


Then again maybe this is what the membership need to to reach critical mass..... if the do... will they be smarter than the USAPA guys and fix the problems instead of switching the name.
 
You fail at reading comprehension. They get their cut of your contributions, not earnings.

No you fail at basic investing, if they take your contibution you never get the earnings on that two percent they took. It may not seem like alot each month but you lose the time value of the money that could have been earning interest for you.

They will have no problem passing this since most pilots don't understand the first thing about money except they don't make enough of it and they always let someone else have it.

Go spend a nickle and educate yourself or you will forever be giving your money away to those much smarter than you.
 
No you fail at basic investing, if they take your contibution you never get the earnings on that two percent they took. It may not seem like alot each month but you lose the time value of the money that could have been earning interest for you.

They will have no problem passing this since most pilots don't understand the first thing about money except they don't make enough of it and they always let someone else have it.

Go spend a nickle and educate yourself or you will forever be giving your money away to those much smarter than you.

No, you still don't understand. ALPA currently gets 1.95% of your wages minus 401k. If this changes, you will pay 1.95% of your wages. This will still be a deduction on a line-item on your paycheck, just like medical insurance is. Your 401k contribution will still be at the level you set (6, 8, 10%, whatever), and while your take-home pay will be reduced slightly, your 401k contributions will not be.

What you're trying to say is that, say, when your medical insurance premium changes, that the difference comes out of your 401k contribution. Obviously that doesn't happen... so why would a change in union dues be any different? If you decide you can't stand losing the $2 or $3 a paycheck in difference (and that's all the difference works out to be), and you decide to reduce your 401k contributions accordingly, it's your fault your long-term gains are diminished.
 
No, you still don't understand. ALPA currently gets 1.95% of your wages minus 401k. If this changes, you will pay 1.95% of your wages. This will still be a deduction on a line-item on your paycheck, just like medical insurance is. Your 401k contribution will still be at the level you set (6, 8, 10%, whatever), and while your take-home pay will be reduced slightly, your 401k contributions will not be.

What you're trying to say is that, say, when your medical insurance premium changes, that the difference comes out of your 401k contribution. Obviously that doesn't happen... so why would a change in union dues be any different? If you decide you can't stand losing the $2 or $3 a paycheck in difference (and that's all the difference works out to be), and you decide to reduce your 401k contributions accordingly, it's your fault your long-term gains are diminished.
Actually it is about 10 to 15 dollars if you are a captain, that adds up over a 30 to 40 year career. They get enough already, Prater needs to cut his comp. by 30 to 40% to be inline with the average Continental pilot, then we will talk about extra dues, until that time keep your grubby paws off my cash!!
 
Actually it is about 10 to 15 dollars if you are a captain, that adds up over a 30 to 40 year career.

I sincerely doubt that most regional pilots put anywhere between $512-$770 a paycheck in their 401k.

Putting $512/paycheck would almost max your contributions out, and that's only $10 in dues. If you put $770/check ($15 in dues) you would have to quit midway through the year since you would go over the limit.

I'm not supporting the change, I don't like it either. I just hate misinformation, and I really think that either way it's so little money that it probably doesn't matter to the average pilot.
 
My assumption was based on a monthly total, so 5 dollars a paycheck. It still adds up! Most pilots I talk to are already fed up with ALPA, first the age 65, now this! If they need to raise money, they need to start at the top down and start cutting expenditures, namely their own compensation. Then if they still need more we can talk. Until then, keep your hands off of my money!
 
I agree that it's crappy for ALPA to tap the 401k.

The reason they are doing this instead of just raising the direct dues is that they think pilots won't notice. It's a "back door" increase. Why not go for an open dues increase? This comes across as greedy and sneaky. Again very crappy.

If ALPA intends to do business this way, they may find themselves in an even more tenuous situation then they already are.
 
Here is a list of everyone at ALPA who makes over $200k from 2006. Found at www.unionfacts.org

Air Line Pilots (ALPA)
National Headquarters Officers & Employees

Name Title Salary Benefits
& Other Total
Compensation
Duane Woerth President $ 348,345 $ 137,066 $ 485,411
Jalmer Johnson General Manager $ 391,742 $ 3,712 $ 395,454
Jonathan Cohen Chief Counsel/dir Legal $ 377,743 $ 4,898 $ 382,641
Bruce York Director, Representation $ 352,122 $ 27,464 $ 379,586
Paul Hallisay Director, Gov't Affairs $ 322,343 $ 8,305 $ 330,648
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Finance $ 309,347 $ 11,866 $ 321,213
William Roberts Asst Dir, Representation $ 296,480 $ 15,608 $ 312,088
Don Skiados Director, Communications $ 302,978 $ 7,476 $ 310,454
Jim Johnson Sr Managing Attorney $ 285,685 $ 13,223 $ 298,908
Jeffrey Small Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 238,305 $ 44,555 $ 282,860
Keith Hagy Director, E&as $ 272,853 $ 4,024 $ 276,877
Liz Koby Sr Managing Attorney $ 263,999 $ 12,064 $ 276,063
Dennis Dolan First Vice-president $ 0 $ 273,875 $ 273,875
Dave Vance Director, R&i $ 267,768 $ 3,982 $ 271,750
Seth Rosen Director, Ipsc $ 229,472 $ 36,888 $ 266,360
Jim Wilson Asst Dir, Representation $ 253,410 $ 7,846 $ 261,256
Bob Christy Manager, Econ & Financial $ 230,553 $ 23,262 $ 253,815
Ana Mcahron-schulz Dir, Econ & Fin Anal $ 230,572 $ 18,825 $ 249,397
Patrick Brennaman Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 229,600 $ 8,658 $ 238,258
Bob Lipsey Pension Inv Coordinator $ 234,656 $ 54 $ 234,710
Robert Nichols Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 227,335 $ 4,446 $ 231,781
Russ Bailey Sr. Attorney $ 227,304 $ 3,038 $ 230,342
Marcus Migliore Managing Attorney $ 219,650 $ 4,883 $ 224,533
Betty Ginsburg Managing Attorney $ 219,088 $ 2,997 $ 222,085
Clay Warner Managing Attorney $ 219,733 $ 1,896 $ 221,629
Russell Woody Sr Benefits Attorney, R&i $ 208,478 $ 11,905 $ 220,383
Charlie Murphy Director, It & Services $ 213,633 $ 3,744 $ 217,377
Stephen Nagrotsky Sr Contract Administrator $ 207,006 $ 5,302 $ 212,308
Art Luby Asst Dir, Representation $ 201,536 $ 8,235 $ 209,771
Richard Domholt Sr Contract Administrator $ 199,861 $ 6,489 $ 206,350
 
Box Office... please.... using that information only shows freshman status....

I too agree that tapping the 401k is bad.

Let's look at DW on your list form the union busting website.....

Duane Woerth President $ 348,345 + $ 137,066 = $ 485,411


He made 348K working 12 hour days, 7 days a week, doing something 99% of us line pilots can't do. Most senior line pilots choose the 15+ days off a month, fly 3 or four trips.. call in sick for a couple, plus 4+ weeks vacation... you can see who is working his tail off and who isn't...

The 137K is expenses to live in DC. Since NWA didn't give him per deim, he was given that too. Should the President be able to wine and dine people in DC? I think he should with moderation...

In addition, the 137K is taxed by the IRS. Should you pay taxes on your company paid per deim? Should you pay taxes on the cost of van transportation to the hotels on every overnight? Should you pay tax on the value of every hotel you stay at on your overnights for the company?


Please be responsbile as you distribute information.
 
Box Office... please.... using that information only shows freshman status....

I too agree that tapping the 401k is bad.

Let's look at DW on your list form the union busting website.....

Duane Woerth President $ 348,345 + $ 137,066 = $ 485,411


He made 348K working 12 hour days, 7 days a week, doing something 99% of us line pilots can't do. Most senior line pilots choose the 15+ days off a month, fly 3 or four trips.. call in sick for a couple, plus 4+ weeks vacation... you can see who is working his tail off and who isn't...

The 137K is expenses to live in DC. Since NWA didn't give him per deim, he was given that too. Should the President be able to wine and dine people in DC? I think he should with moderation...

In addition, the 137K is taxed by the IRS. Should you pay taxes on your company paid per deim? Should you pay taxes on the cost of van transportation to the hotels on every overnight? Should you pay tax on the value of every hotel you stay at on your overnights for the company?


Please be responsbile as you distribute information.

Don't talk down to me as though I'm your child. Your constant condescension to everyone who challenges your ideals is tiring.

My point was that a lot of the people in Herndon make money that is excessive compared to what the pilots who support them now make.

In the days when a senior Delta or Northwest pilot made $300k+ a year I could see it. But not now. With all of the bankruptcies and pay cuts we have endured, I think our union leadership should also endure some "shared sacrifice". And maybe then, they wouldn't be back dooring us into a dues increase.
 
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Spot on Box!

Don't talk down to me as though I'm your child. Your constant condescension to everyone who challenges your ideals is tiring.

My point was that a lot of the people in Herndon make money that is excessive compared to what the pilots who support them now make.

In the days when a senior Delta or Northwest pilot made $300k+ a year I could see it. But not now. With all of the bankruptcies and pay cuts we have endured, I think our union leadership should also endure some "shared sacrifice". And maybe then, they wouldn't be back dooring us into a dues increase.
 
Isnt that just like a liberal (group)?!?! Raise "taxes" instead of cut spending.
Anyone care to guess whats going to happen if Hil or Barak becomes Prez?
 
My point was that a lot of the people in Herndon make money that is excessive compared to what the pilots who support them now make.

In the days when a senior Delta or Northwest pilot made $300k+ a year I could see it. But not now. With all of the bankruptcies and pay cuts we have endured, I think our union leadership should also endure some "shared sacrifice". And maybe then, they wouldn't be back dooring us into a dues increase.

"Excessive" compensation is subject to perspective. I don't instantly assume that anyone paid more than me is overpaid. Unlike us sorry saps the executive/legal staffs at ALPA are not bound by a seniority list. They command a good wage because thats the market price and if they don't get it it they vote with their feet. You have any idea what a good attorney can make it the DC area? I'll give you a hint, its more than any pilot could dream of making in a cockpit.

Wages throughout ALPA have been stagnant for years and the staffers are taking their skills elsewhere. Many very talented, experienced people have already left and many other have head hunters out looking for them.

Here is a fact plain and simple. If measures such as these are not taken there will be a dues increase to well above 2%.
 
"Wages throughout ALPA have been stagnant for years"-and pilot salaries have been in decline for years.

"Here is a fact plain and simple. If measures such as these are not taken there will be a dues increase to well above 2%."-And here is an idea plain and simple. Operate within your budget. Pilots and other working Americans do this every day of the year and still some how, some way they manage. Odd isn't it?
 

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