Just got furloughed from dayjet!

[Hawker dude]

UNION


NJASAP NJASAP NJASAP


Fat and stupid is no way to go through life son.

 

[netjetwife]

First of all, not many people had much seniority in the first place. First come-first served is a fundamental rule of fairness whether it's a ticket or a job. So when you have to buy something you don't bother holding your place in line, huh? After all the people behind you arrived about the same time, right? Second, they did not explain the why and wherefore so we are being critical without knowing the reasons. Not explaining is, in and of itself, a problem. The employees deserved better treatment. ... I do not know why this post is even on the fractional board because they certainly are not a fractional operation in any sense. Here we go again...sigh. Your business blinders prevent you from seeing the human element of the situation. There's a good chance that some of the pilots will apply to fractional companies--reason enough. Perhaps the furloughed pilots are looking for moral support? I like to think the fractional forum is seen as a friendly, supportive place to all pilots. This is not an airline and like NJW's NJ, mine? That's not fair to all the hardworking NJ pilots posting here. they have created a business model that is new in all aspects. That doesn't excuse them from doing the right thing by their employees. Did they keep only captains, ones at certain bases, whatever. The methodology should have been explained; at the very least to those involved, if not publicly. Does it really matter if you are one let go how they did it. Yes, it does. It's bad enough without wondering if you were a victim of the good old boy network. As their press release said, it is impossible for companies like this to raise money right now. This is what happened to Adam Aircraft, to Javalin, and to many others.

Mistreating employees is a practice seen far too often in aviation when managers fail to do their job with the same high degree of accountability they demand from the pilots on every flight. Considering that double standard, every word of censure from the pilots is understandable.

 

[Publishers]

Do you know anyone in this situation that has been mistreated. One of my good friends at Dayjet who was not a pilot was one of the people laid off. He does not feel mistreated. They are a startup company trying to accomplish something. They hit a roadblock along the way. Ed has millions of his own money in this company and has worked tirelessly to make it work. While you may feel that seniority is some type of blessed procedure, it only exists in union operations. The explanation is pretty clear: we did not get the funding necessary to continue expansion.
What gets me is you think I cannot see the human side of the equation. I was once forced to shut down a companies entire state operation. It was especially painful as it was the state where the company had been founded and had many 3nd and 3rd generation employees. It was traumatic but necessary for the long term health of the company. We worked through it the best we could, referred people to other companies in the same business, and gave them severance based on years. It was so painful, I left the company that had been my career and started on a new path.
My point here is we do not really know what criteria they used in determining anything except a poster said he thinks they ignored seniority. That simply is not enough information. We do not even know how many were pilots.

 

[imacdog]

Blah Blah Blah

Defending what's going on is pretty dumb. Layoffs out of seniority are simply wrong.

 

[gunfyter]

I don't know. at-will is at-will. Even at a union shop you can be canned for any reason on probation.

 

[netjetwife]

Do you know anyone in this situation that has been mistreated. Obviously Skyrider feels mistreated. Based on the reactions from pilots on the thread it's a good bet that other DayJet pilots share the opinion they were treated badly. One of my good friends at Dayjet who was not a pilot was one of the people laid off. He does not feel mistreated. I've noticed that you usually view things from a management perspective. They are a startup company trying to accomplish something. They hit a roadblock along the way. Ed has millions of his own money in this company and has worked tirelessly to make it work. The pilots invested skill and time; I'm sure they worked hard for success, too. While you may feel that seniority is some type of blessed procedure, Actually, our society runs on a system of fairness that we're all familiar with. We line up. The first one there gets served first. It's not a blessing... it's a basic concept to ensure fair treatment. it only exists in union operations. Unions guarantee the rules are followed, but other companies use them voluntarily when they care about treating workers right. The explanation is pretty clear: we did not get the funding necessary to continue expansion. What gets me is you think I cannot see the human side of the equation. Your reputation precedes you and your current posting maintains it. I was once forced to shut down a companies entire state operation. It was especially painful as it was the state where the company had been founded and had many 3nd and 3rd generation employees. It was traumatic but necessary for the long term health of the company. That does sound awful. I respectfully suggest that you bring that past empathy to your current viewpoints regarding pilots who post here. We worked through it the best we could, referred people to other companies in the same business, and gave them severance based on years. In other words management used a seniority system. Was it a union company? Or one that just cared about treating the workers fairly? It was so painful, I left the company that had been my career and started on a new path. I'm sorry things didn't work out better for you. My point here is we do not really know what criteria they used in determining anything except a poster said he thinks they ignored seniority. That simply is not enough information. We do not even know how many were pilots.

My point is the lack of information is evidence of treating employees wrong. Had they cared about fairness the workforce would have received oral and/or written communications explaining the necessity for the furloughs and the method used to ensure they were done fairly.

I (and most who post here) instinctively look at situations from the perspective of the pilots. You typically see things from a management viewpoint. (Is that because you work in management?) Thus, it's not surprising that we frequently have differing opinions. NJW

 

[C425Driver]

Now she's an expert on DayJets. You guys can have her!

 

[netjetwife]

Any reason? Or failure to meet probationary standards? The latter is the phrase I've heard my husband use.

Like Imacdog, I expect workers to be treated fairly. First come, first served is such a wide-spread practice in our society that we look for it to be used in situations where we expect people to receive even-handed treatment.

 

[netjetwife]

Now she's an expert on DayJets. You guys can have her!

Expert on DayJets... Not at all. I'm merely sympathizing with Skyrider for the way the situation was handled and sharing the opinion of the rest of the pilots posting on the thread who think things sound unfair. Interesting that you singled me out...:erm: I was warned by a NJ pilot that I'll probably run into gender bias here. Fortunately, it is the exception and not the rule.

 

[CitationUltra]

The layoffs came about because DayJet was unable to secure $40 million in financing needed to continue their expansion. They had been hiring based on the assumption that they would get that capital infusion. That's why there were want ads out as little as a few days ago.

As expected, DayJet executives are talking around the issue as best they can. They can downplay the issue all they want, but if DayJet couldn't convince investors to plow another $40 million into the operation, then I wonder what those investors know that we don't?

http://www.businessweek.com/lifesty...?chan=top+news_top+news+index_news+++analysis

What they know is that with petroleum costs skyrocketing, aviation is a poor investment.

 

[CitationUltra]

Blah Blah Blah

Defending what's going on is pretty dumb. Layoffs out of seniority are simply wrong.

I'm no expert on Dayjet, but from what I've read, they are take pride in being a new, innovative company that is not looking to do things just because "that's the way they've always been done" in aviation.

Therefore, it should come as no surprise that they do not adhere to certain conventions of the rest of the industry, such as "seniority" being inviolate. Dayjet is a non-union operation and may believe that it is in their best interest to retain according to merit, not seniority.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Not to pour salt on the wound, but as I recall from my interview with DayJet in April 08, the HR lady was quick to point out that DayJet does not in fact uses a seniority system. So to expect one out of thin air when it comes time to layoff is not entirely reasonable when one accepted the job knowing such is the fact.

However, I do think that laying off NOT in the order of hired or level of expertise (check airmen to be booted?!) is very bad manner!

As far as IF there are some sort of shenanigans going on with management, I cannot comment for sure. But bear two facts in mind:
1) The credit market is very very tight. Recovering from Billions of poor investments in the housing market, the banks are trying to stop the bleeding wherever and whenever they can. This lack of credit has put a few airlines out of business already (among other factors). Myself is a victim of this condition (Aloha Airlines).
2) DayJet's business plan, like Netjets, in order to be efficient, MUST be able to blanket the regions that it serves. This help reduces "dead-head" cost of repositioning flights, and provides customers with quick and reliable services. What good would taxis be if you cannot stand on the side of the curb and expect one to come by within 5 minutes?

It stands to reason then DayJet might have to shrink its service area in order to provide the frequency and reliability that serves by half the fleet. This of course, will turn some customers away. Its fair to say that Dayjet better find some capital, PRONTO!

This is terrible timing to start an aviation company (as there is actually no Ideal time!). Quoting from Warren Buffett's 2007 Berkshire's Annual Report:

Now let’s move to the gruesome. The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires
significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a
durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

The airline industry’s demand for capital ever since that first flight has been insatiable. Investors
have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it. And I, to my shame, participated in this foolishness when I had Berkshire buy U.S. Air preferred stock in 1989. As the ink was drying on our check, the company went into a tailspin, and before long our preferred dividend was no longer being paid. But we then got very lucky. In one of the recurrent, but always misguided, bursts of optimism for airlines, we were actually able to sell our shares in 1998 for a hefty gain. In the decade following our sale, the company went bankrupt. Twice.

To sum up, think of three types of “savings accounts.” The great one pays an extraordinarily high interest rate that will rise as the years pass. The good one pays an attractive rate of interest that will be earned also on deposits that are added. Finally, the gruesome account both pays an inadequate interest rate and requires you to keep adding money at those disappointing returns.

 

[steve3137]

Lady no one cares what your husband does. you are not a pilot get off of here and clean the house!!!

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Lady no one cares what your husband does. you are not a pilot get off of here and clean the house!!!

Please refrain yourself from leaving the REGIONAL portion of this site! Plus, what makes you think she is really a wife anyways?

 

[C425Driver]

Expert on DayJets... Not at all. I'm merely sympathizing with Skyrider for the way the situation was handled and sharing the opinion of the rest of the pilots posting on the thread who think things sound unfair. Interesting that you singled me out...:erm: I was warned by a NJ pilot that I'll probably run into gender bias here. Fortunately, it is the exception and not the rule.

Gender bias? How did you come up with gender bias? Making a derogatory remark about your gender never crossed my mind because it's irrelevant. I guess it fits your M.O., though - always the victim. Anyway, you were sympathizing with Skyrider in your first post - even though it included your usual union plug. Now you're just trying to tell everyone how it is or should be at DayJet when you have no clue - you haven't worked there or walked a mile in their shoes. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

To the DayJet folks out there - sorry to hear about the turn of events. I've talked to a few of your pilots in BCT and they seemed to enjoy it there. I wish you all the best of luck.