Ex-Gulfstream International Airline pilot files complaint with FAA

[PCL_128]

even though the aircraft was perfectly airworthy

Legal does not = airworthy. It's up to the PIC to determine whether the aircraft is truly airworthy.

 

[WSurf]

Legal does not = airworthy. It's up to the PIC to determine whether the aircraft is truly airworthy.

Boy, this thread is getting old! I can't wait for a big red MESA SUCKS sign!

 

[Say Again Over]

Legal does not = airworthy. It's up to the PIC to determine whether the aircraft is truly airworthy.

Close but no cigar, I think I understand the point you make but the pilot in question will need a bit more, valid concerns that will defend his final decision.

 

[DashTrash400]

It's a sad day in aviation when not just management but regular line pilots are doing their part to tear down Captain's authority.

 

[Say Again Over]

Dash, hope you aren't referring to me, just trying to get the full story, trying to get PCL to point out wasn't safe about taking this flight, if I understand this right, the aircraft pressurization and TCAS was MEL'd, is this a valid reason to turn down the trip, or is there more to the story?

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

the TCAS isn't the issue...the management is. I've flown with those guys from Gulfstream and heard the horrors. I thought MESA was bad....it does get worse. As a former commuter pilot, stay strong and dont ever let the company/ management make "Your flying decisions". Whats the worse that happens....you lose your job at a poorly run company who would self disclose on you in a heart beat to the FAA. Yes...You can get hired somewhere else !!!

 

[PA31Driver]

If it is mel'd, then the FAA has deemed it to be both legal AND safe.

Yeah, the FAA has also deemed the current duty/rest times legal and SAFE.

Once again, just because it's legal does not mean it's safe.

 

[Poahi]

Legal does not = airworthy. It's up to the PIC to determine whether the aircraft is truly airworthy.

True dat! The day you take away the Captain's authority to determine whether or not the flight can be completed safely is the day you take away his responsibility if it doesn't.

And when that happens, the traveling public should know we have lawyers flying airplanes from the ground. Lawyers may be able to argue with a judge over a legality issue, but they can't argue their way out of on-coming traffic.

Here's another thought. If you have a mechanical discrepancy and all a mechanic does is reset a CB and ops checks it okay on the ground, I think it's entirely reasonable for a Captain not to trust it especially if your airline has a history of doing that sort of thing and it gets written up multiple times.

 

[Say Again Over]

The day you take away the Captain's authority to determine whether or not the flight can be completed safely is the day you take away his responsibility if it doesn't

Well whatever you and PCL are smoking it must be the same brand, good luck with that defense.

 

[Poahi]

Well whatever you and PCL are smoking it must be the same brand, good luck with that defense.

Say It Again Over,

I am so glad that someone with over 13,000 hours in this industry has the ability to come on a message board and complain about how TCAS wasn't necessary.

Many who have come before you and me have died giving us the tools to help keep us safe and have made this industry what it is today. Maybe if you had family or friends on Aeromexico 498 you would have a different view.

MEL relief doesn't give you the relief from using good judgement. I probably would have taken that plane, but from what I understand, his actions were reasonable and not worthy of termination. Let's see what the jury comes up with.

 

[Poahi]

the TCAS isn't the issue...the management is. I've flown with those guys from Gulfstream and heard the horrors. I thought MESA was bad....it does get worse. As a former commuter pilot, stay strong and dont ever let the company/ management make "Your flying decisions". Whats the worse that happens....you lose your job at a poorly run company who would self disclose on you in a heart beat to the FAA. Yes...You can get hired somewhere else !!!

Just imagine what the posts would look like on this board if something would have happened on that flight.

"I can't believe that guy took an airplane without TCAS at a low altitude and flew it all over southern Florida with passengers on board." "What an idiot!" "My family will never fly on Gulfstream again!"

"Those pilots are inexperienced and can't think for themselves!"

Yet when a pilot makes a decision based on reasonable judgement and safety concerns some people on this board can't wait to bash him. Very sad.

 

[BOHICAgain]

Just imagine what the posts would look like on this board if something would have happened on that flight.

"I can't believe that guy took an airplane without TCAS at a low altitude and flew it all over southern Florida with passengers on board." "What an idiot!" "My family will never fly on Gulfstream again!"

"Those pilots are inexperienced and can't think for themselves!"

Yet when a pilot makes a decision based on reasonable judgement and safety concerns some people on this board can't wait to bash him. Very sad.

excellent point...

That would have been the nicer of the post, im sure that the FI folks would come up with much worse than that

 

[JustaNumber]

Well whatever you and PCL are smoking it must be the same brand, good luck with that defense.

I guess a lot of us captains are smoking the same brand, thank goodness.

Straight from the preamble to our company's MEL (which is probably similar to all approved MEL's):

"Operators are responsible for exercising the necessary operational control to ensure that an
acceptable level of safety is maintained. When operating with multiple inoperative items, the
interrelationships between those items and the effect on aircraft operation and crew workload will be
considered.

WHEN USING THE MEL, COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATED INTENT OF THE PREAMBLE,
DEFINITIONS, AND THE CONDITIONS AND LIMITATIONS SPECIFIED IN THE MEL IS REQUIRED."
(I didn't even have to add the all caps).

In addition, FAR 91.3(a) states that "[t]he pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft."

I'm no lawyer, but I believe that this defense is quite clear and more than adequate. I have to add, that I hope for your passengers' sake, that you are not acting as PIC at present.

 

[Say Again Over]

So let me see, you guys are now scared to fly without TCAS, because you are the final authority, and look what happened in Los Angeles, yata yata... You guys are hilarious.

 

[Say Again Over]

I'm no lawyer, but I believe that this defense is quite clear and more than adequate. I have to add, that I hope for your passengers' sake, that you are not acting as PIC at present.

That's obvious, and yes, I was probably a PIC before you were born.