Skywest/Expressjet/Continental

[Medeco]

How's this any different than wanting Mesa to disappear. No hard feeling for express jet but come on that branded flying is a lost cause.

Thats very easy, express jet raised the bar on pay for all regional pilots.

Mesa has always done the opposite.

MESA SUCKS!

The branded flying was the idea of management not pilots, express jet pilots have a right to have pride in who the work for.

Medeco

 

[erj-145mech]

Skyw will be doing the flying;however, the reason for the purchase attempt is to get the options on the e170/75 that XJET has.

What part of your a$$ did you pull that out of?
XJT does not have any options on anything larger than 50 seats. CAL's scope will not allow any one else to operate a jet over 50 certified seats in their system.

 

[Superpilot92]

For the last time XJT doesn't own their aircraft they lease them!!!! There's nothing to buy!

Whats the point? Most companies dont buy their aircraft anymore. That helps keep debt down not to mention that keeps the carriers the regionals fly for from completely screwing them. CAL CXs flying XJT COULD dump the leases on CAL or as long as they keep paying the leases they are XJT airplanes to be used for whatever they want. Its a good thing XJT doesnt OWN 274 50 seaters.

 

[Nevets]

SkyWest does do at-risk flying for both Delta and United, if you really want to get technical. Delta and United provide the reservations and the codeshare, but SkyWest does the marketing and pays the fuel.

FYI, XJT does as well. They have 14 aircraft doing it for DAL. I think the deal is similar to what SKW does with DAL.

 

[Nevets]

For the last time XJT doesn't own their aircraft they lease them!!!! There's nothing to buy!

For the last time XJT has over $500 million in total assets (this doesn't include aircraft leases)!

 

[flyboyzz1]

What part of your a$$ did you pull that out of?
XJT does not have any options on anything larger than 50 seats. CAL's scope will not allow any one else to operate a jet over 50 certified seats in their system.

I'm pretty sure they have options for 50 seaters but EMB has told them they can use them for bigger aircraft

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

For the last time XJT has over $500 million in total assets (this doesn't include aircraft leases)!

Where do you figure the bulk of this comes from? The paint shop in Saltillo isn't worth more than $50M... And otherwise, that's a lot of GPUs

 

[BigLebowski]

Please. It's funny how Skywest is the bad guys for "blowing their loads at the prospect of a contract with Continental" but every time Express Jet get's more Delta flying out of SLC your pilots are all "blowing their loads" over the prospect of more flying with Delta at Skywest expense. What a bunch of hypocrites. Pathetic.

Thank you. I don't remember seeing any of you XJet monkey's on here complaining when you undercut ASA in LAX and "stole" their flying.

Our CEO put in a fair offer, and with that offer it would save your jobs. The parts of your contract that Jerry and our management doesn't like has nothing to do with pay or QOL issues so bag that one please.

We offered you 63% more for your stock than it was worth. Common sense...if you were selling your car for 10,000 and someone offered you 16,300...what would you do?

 

[yellowfever]

Thank you. I don't remember seeing any of you XJet monkey's on here complaining when you undercut ASA in LAX and "stole" their flying.

Our CEO put in a fair offer, and with that offer it would save your jobs. The parts of your contract that Jerry and our management doesn't like has nothing to do with pay or QOL issues so bag that one please.

We offered you 63% more for your stock than it was worth. Common sense...if you were selling your car for 10,000 and someone offered you 16,300...what would you do?

In my opinion, that is a simple and poor comparison.

 

[Superpilot92]

Thank you. I don't remember seeing any of you XJet monkey's on here complaining when you undercut ASA in LAX and "stole" their flying.

Our CEO put in a fair offer, and with that offer it would save your jobs. The parts of your contract that Jerry and our management doesn't like has nothing to do with pay or QOL issues so bag that one please.

We offered you 63% more for your stock than it was worth. Common sense...if you were selling your car for 10,000 and someone offered you 16,300...what would you do?

ASA wasnt undercut they were in place in LAX until the XJT aircraft were available from the CAL system. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting the bid amount by XJT and ASA for that flying, Monkey!

 

[ATRCA]

The SKW mgt will learn soon enough what the CHQ mgt team has finally picked up on.

THERE WILL BE NO flying for anything larger than 50 seat a/c under the CAL brand. CAL recently announced that it was canceling service to DAB. They are reducing RJ capacity, not adding it. SKW will most likely do CAL flying, it will however not be on the scale that XJT does. Nor will XJT frankly ever operate a fleet as large as they do not for CAL.

All this pissing and moaning is about a small contract to operate these RJ's few a few years. My guess is SKW will operate perhaps 50 ERJ's, XJT will operate 50 or so and the Q400's will keep coming. The 73's have recently been put back on markets like CMH, BWI, DCA, RDU and many others that used to be nothing but RJ's.

The RJ market is in big trouble. Their future is very limited, ie no great expansion.
In a few years SKW will be parking these things in the desert in numbers.

 

[ATRCA]

Shouldn't you be on the "Monday Morning CEO" or the "CEO Wannabe" forum? You're an aircraft jockey, right?

Do you have any questions about actually operating an airline? Perhaps I could help you out with comprehending the whole "Airline CEOs could care less what the pilots think."

Thats funny. I have worked many different jobs in aviation. I have a dispatch certificate. I dispatched for a couple of years actually. Real a/c though. No "puddle jumpers." Only ETOPS widebodies. You know what I learned? Dispatching SUXS!!

Nobody wants to visit your cubicle office clown. No one cares about "behind the scenes."

 

[Klr2land]

All you "Skyworst pogues" keep rubbing your pathetic little peckers while you steal XJT's flying for CAL but there's one problem with your wet dream: S-C-O-P-E.
So, your Bombardier POS may be a winner elsewhere, but it won't be in CAL colors.


SMOE started the name calling with this "Skyworst pogues" numnuts. Looks like this is the best he can do. But thanks for joining in his defense, SuperPuss. Shouldn't you be getting your resume ready?

This coming from someone who started off the post calling him a name

Thanks for the Laughs

SMOE thanks for calling him out he deserved it.

 

[Nevets]

Where do you figure the bulk of this comes from? The paint shop in Saltillo isn't worth more than $50M... And otherwise, that's a lot of GPUs

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1144331/000114433108000032/xjt10q033108final.htm

 

[justthewife]

So, a few XJET pilots try to post the truth, using facts and rationality, and we get called "idiots." Or, otherwise ridiculed for having "small brains." Well, okay, you Skywest pilots have proved what I have long thought to be true. The amount of vitriol directed at me, and at the rest of the people who try to post the FACTS is telling about the spirit of your pilot group.

The classic comment which I hear all the time from you Skywesters is, "I don't want Xjet to go out of business, or for people to lose their jobs, BUT...." Yeah, right. Then why are you all so insistent on slinging mud, saying we "stole" ASA's flying, saying our company is only worth about half what Jerry offered to buy it for, etc., when the facts don't support this?

Having spent a lot of time in Salt Lake City, and getting to know several Skywest pilots, I thought they were the anomalies- mindless, spineless, blindly-following fools. I can't tell you how many times Skywesters said to me "We don't need a contract. Jerry is an honorable guy. He's a Mormon. He'd never screw us over." Oh yeah, how's that 1% raise? How do you like training on your days off? Isn't it nice to know you could be fired for refusing to fly fatigued?

So, who would he screw over? How about Delta? Think about how you got 450 million in the bank-- certainly helps when Delta pays for your fuel. Think about the 20-something year contract you got with Delta when they were desperate for cash and sold ASA. Don't you think maybe that was screwing over Delta-forcing them into a deal that might not have been in their best interest simply because they needed the cash? But wait, you say, that was just "business."

Those are just things to think about. I don't want your comments or rebuttals, I just want you to THINK FOR YOURSELVES for once. XJET getting rid of its scope at the hands of Jerry Atkin will be bad for the entire profession.

And for those who say I have an axe to grind, well I don't know quite how to respond. First, I'm a Mormon convert. So, that can't be it. But, I do find what I've been reading on this board about the Skywest-XJET-Continental debacle sickening, and your attitudes make me sad for humanity.

Oh yeah, XJT's stock status was changed to "buy" today. Wall Street doesn't seem to think we're going under!

Lest you think I'm spouting Kool-Aide-as I've been accused- I don't even work for XJET.

 

[erikgigem]

For the last time XJT has over $500 million in total assets (this doesn't include aircraft leases)!

What matters is cash on hand, unless XJT plans to liquidate their entire company of $500 million in assets.

As of Dec 31, 2007, XJT reported $189 million in cash. They just reported a loss of $31.31 million in the 1st quarter - leaving now their cash on hand at $158. Google Financial reports their market capitol is at $159.81 Million at $3.08 a share. Tough times for the entire industry..

SOURCE: PR NEWSWIRE
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-05-2008/0004806855&EDATE=

 

[Turtlesfly]

nobody on this topic yet has posted the obvious problem is that XJT scope won't allow this sale anyways.

We would have to integrate our seniority lists with Skywest's within 9 months, and they don't want that - JA even said in that letter that they will consider that section "null and void" in order for a deal to go through.

Well obviously the XJT pilots won't approve that. So tell me why we're still discussing this?

 

[Superpilot92]

I just want to clarify that i am a huge pu$$y thats likes to hide behind PMs until i am called out. Sorry that i am such a Toolbox :blush: Hey thanks for coming clean :laugh:


SMOE started the name calling with this "Skyworst pogues" numnuts. Looks like this is the best he can do. But thanks for joining in his defense, SuperPuss. Shouldn't you be getting your resume readyWhy would i be doing that? I am not going anywhere else. Thanks for the career guidance but i think i am doing just fine on my own and you're the last person i want "career" advice from LMAO ?

What i dont get a PM? :uzi:Klr2takeitNtheA!! :smash:

 

[flyboyzz1]

Lot of winners on this thread!

 

[flyboyzz1]

here's something productive...can a xjt or anyone else please explain the non-hub clause. I don't understand or I guess I haven't read much about it...lets try to not fight about this one eh

 

[Turtlesfly]

here's something productive...can a xjt or anyone else please explain the non-hub clause. I don't understand or I guess I haven't read much about it...lets try to not fight about this one eh

The first 69 planes that CAL released from XJT's CAL feed were "given" to XJT in the sense that we could do just about anything with them: fly our own airline (branded), fly another codeshare (Delta) et cetera. But what we couldn't do is operate them for revenue into/out of any of CAL's hub airports: CLE, IAH and EWR. Rumor had it that that's why we didn't get the contract to do the express flying for Midwest: since we would have to have told Midwest: we have planes laying around and we'd love to fly for you, but unfortunately we can't do any turns into EWR CLE or IAH - but any other city is fine. Supposedly that was one reason we didn't get the feed and it went to Skywest.

Once CAL releases more than 1/2 of the original 274, then the no-compete clause is cancelled for ALL of the airframes - and we can send those planes to compete with CAL head-to-head if we so chose

hope that helps

 

[flyboyzz1]

makes sense...so if it got to this point (hope it doesn't) you could start to spread the branded to hubs of CAL? What good would that do as I'm sure it would be a tough market? Thanks for the answer BTW

 

[Nevets]

What matters is cash on hand, unless XJT plans to liquidate their entire company of $500 million in assets.

As of Dec 31, 2007, XJT reported $189 million in cash. They just reported a loss of $31.31 million in the 1st quarter - leaving now their cash on hand at $158. Google Financial reports their market capitol is at $159.81 Million at $3.08 a share. Tough times for the entire industry..

SOURCE: PR NEWSWIRE
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-05-2008/0004806855&EDATE=

XJT has $191.7 million in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments as of March 31, 2008. I was just responding to someone who said that, "There's nothing to buy" because they don't own any aircraft when in fact they have more than $500 million in total assets.

 

[Nevets]

The first 69 planes that CAL released from XJT's CAL feed were "given" to XJT in the sense that we could do just about anything with them: fly our own airline (branded), fly another codeshare (Delta) et cetera. But what we couldn't do is operate them for revenue into/out of any of CAL's hub airports: CLE, IAH and EWR. Rumor had it that that's why we didn't get the contract to do the express flying for Midwest: since we would have to have told Midwest: we have planes laying around and we'd love to fly for you, but unfortunately we can't do any turns into EWR CLE or IAH - but any other city is fine. Supposedly that was one reason we didn't get the feed and it went to Skywest.

Once CAL releases more than 1/2 of the original 274, then the no-compete clause is cancelled for ALL of the airframes - and we can send those planes to compete with CAL head-to-head if we so chose

hope that helps

The Continental CPA states that:

• at Continental’s hubs, we may only fly for Continental;

• at any other airport where Continental, its subsidiaries and other regional jets operating under Continental’s code as their primary code operate an average of more than 50 flights daily(currently there are no such airports), we may only fly for Continental; and

• we cannot operate any of our aircraft subject to the agreement or use our passenger-related airport facilities employed under the agreement for other carriers or for flights under our own code.

So long as scheduled flights under the Continental CPA represent at least 50% of all our scheduled flights, or at least 200 of our aircraft are covered by the agreement, we are required to allocate our crews, maintenance personnel, facilities and other resources on a priority basis to scheduled flights under the agreement above all of our other flights and aircraft.

So long as Continental is our largest customer, if we enter into a capacity purchase or economically similar agreement with another major airline (defined as any airline with annual revenues greater than $500 million, prior to adjustment for inflation since 2000) to provide regional airline service for more than 10 aircraft on terms and conditions that are, in the aggregate, less favorable to us than those in the Continental CPA, that agreement has a provision that may allow Continental to amend it to conform to the terms and conditions of our new agreement.

 

[Metro752]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yeah!

Kool-Aid, that hits the spot!

 

[XPOO]

XJET getting rid of its scope at the hands of Jerry Atkin will be bad for the entire profession.

And for those who say I have an axe to grind, well I don't know quite how to respond. First, I'm a Mormon convert. So, that can't be it.

You wont give up scope to keep your job and support your family, but you'll give up 10% of your hard earned money to support a religion that was fabricated from the mind of a mid-1800's adulterer?

 

[SMOE]

From Another Board...

More likely result will be CAL taking back the 51 jets if Coex does not want them. Then we will lease them to to Skywest which in turn will staff them at a much lower cost than Expressjet ever could. The reason why? When Skywest figures the cost they figure it at new crew rates ie. 1st year F/O's and year 2 or 3 Capt's. They did the same thing to us at Air Wisconsin. We ended up losing all of our flying to them. When you are trying to compete against a person bidding aganist you at an "incremental" cost, you can never be cheaper.

 

[Turtlesfly]

You wont give up scope to keep your job and support your family, but you'll give up 10% of your hard earned money to support a religion that was fabricated from the mind of a mid-1800's adulterer?

Ouch...

 

[Turtlesfly]

The Continental CPA states that:

• at Continental’s hubs, we may only fly for Continental;

• at any other airport where Continental, its subsidiaries and other regional jets operating under Continental’s code as their primary code operate an average of more than 50 flights daily(currently there are no such airports), we may only fly for Continental; and

• we cannot operate any of our aircraft subject to the agreement or use our passenger-related airport facilities employed under the agreement for other carriers or for flights under our own code.

So long as scheduled flights under the Continental CPA represent at least 50% of all our scheduled flights, or at least 200 of our aircraft are covered by the agreement, we are required to allocate our crews, maintenance personnel, facilities and other resources on a priority basis to scheduled flights under the agreement above all of our other flights and aircraft.

So long as Continental is our largest customer, if we enter into a capacity purchase or economically similar agreement with another major airline (defined as any airline with annual revenues greater than $500 million, prior to adjustment for inflation since 2000) to provide regional airline service for more than 10 aircraft on terms and conditions that are, in the aggregate, less favorable to us than those in the Continental CPA, that agreement has a provision that may allow Continental to amend it to conform to the terms and conditions of our new agreement.

Well, basically what I said but with a lot more technical crap behind it.

 

[erj-145mech]

I'm pretty sure they have options for 50 seaters but EMB has told them they can use them for bigger aircraft

And what official source did you deduct this from? Don't tell me...the old lady sweeping the carpet behind the podium at the gate after the flight departed??

I'm pretty sure that if your Mom boned the president of Empressa (thats the parent organization of Embraer), she would get options on bigger airplanes too!