ALPA Merger Policy?

[MCDU]

So, I know AWA AAA was a disaster. The only other merger with ALPA merger policy was Polar and Atlas.
How did that work out using ALPA merger policy? Did it work out in the end?

Marty

 

[737 Pylt]

So, I know AWA AAA was a disaster. The only other merger with ALPA merger policy was Polar and Atlas.
How did that work out using ALPA merger policy? Did it work out in the end?

Marty

Marty:
AWA/AAA was a disaster because of the east scumbags who are now trying to staple the west pilots to the bottom of their list, then talk of honor and integrity!
However, good goes around. When UAL merges with LCC I hope they use every east pilot as furlough fodder!

737

 

[MCDU]

Thanks for the well wishes. DOH with fences and protections is in no form a staple. Its how a real Union merges its work force. Good luck with NWA.

now back to my question. Anybody know how Polar and Atlas went? Did Alpa merger poicy work?

 

[D-Bo]

So, I know AWA AAA was a disaster. The only other merger with ALPA merger policy was Polar and Atlas.
How did that work out using ALPA merger policy? Did it work out in the end?

Marty

Why? Trying to see if you F'd up by going USAPA? You were a big proponent of USAPA right? If that's the case then why didn't you have this scenario figured out before? Why ask now? You aren't ALPA anymore so your question is irrelevant.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Eagle and Business Express. Date of Hire.

 

[linecheck]

Thanks for the well wishes. DOH with fences and protections is in no form a staple. Its how a real Union merges its work force. Good luck with NWA.

now back to my question. Anybody know how Polar and Atlas went? Did Alpa merger poicy work?

When it places 1500 out of 1750 AWA pilots below the most junior east pilot, that's called a staple.

Nice spin though.

 

[D-Bo]

DOH with fences and protections is in no form a staple. Its how a real Union merges its work force.

Really? That's how a "real union" merges it's workforce? So Airways is made up of many different airlines. PSA, Piedmont, etc.. I don't seem to recall USAir giving all of their partners DOH back then. So when did you a** holes become a "real union"? You Frs have a history of doing your best to F other folks over and then want to get righteous when you may get bent. That s**ts going to stop. You deserve whatever comes to you. Get out of here with that "real union" BS. Your bunch is the antithesis of that.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Merging airlines with our seniority system is a mess. It always has been and always will be. NWA/Delta will be no exception. Usair was the larger and more senior group in that merger. NWA is the smaller and more senior group in the the NWA/Delta merger. The junior airline always wants relative seniority and the senior group always wants DOH. The answer is somewhere in the middle. It cannot possibly work out smoothly.

 

[Carl S.]

East AAA is home of the most bitter sad sack pilot group in the US. No other airline has 20 year bottom F.O.s and 18 year street fodder. Any merger with this group is bound to enter into a disaster. The East wants to make up for their terrible career choices on the backs of any pilot group that they merge with. Watch out for the 1999 hires at AAA, they thought they won the lottery but are today the bottom of the list with three years active service in an 9 years career span! DOH would only help them make up for their bad choice on the hard work of others.

 

[Deadalus]

Beware United pilots, the East scumbags will want their junior FOs taking your senior captain spots. The only good news is that if there is a merger the sleaze bags will be outnumbered.

 

[regionaltard]

So, I know AWA AAA was a disaster. The only other merger with ALPA merger policy was Polar and Atlas.
How did that work out using ALPA merger policy? Did it work out in the end?

Marty

I thought that the Eastwipes already had all of the answers. What did I miss?

 

[BeCareful!]

When it places 1500 out of 1750 AWA pilots below the most junior east pilot, that's called a staple.

Nice spin though.

You wanna back that up with some facts or a teaspoon of reality, or do you just want to see who can "spin" faster? Under what gdam circumstances has this ever been proposed or would it ever happen? What a bunch of idiotic BS.

 

[PositiveRate]

Here are some teaspoons of reality...

Umm, usapa campaigned on DOH with conditions and restrictions - namely DOH with LIFETIME fences around PHX and LAS and DOH furlough protection for East pilots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Ox95ZttPo&feature=related

Fast forward to 3.00 and listen...

On a combined DOH list, 30 AWA pilots in the top 1000, 150 AWA pilots in the top 2000 and just under 300 AWA pilots in the top 3000. It's a staple. Restrictions don't change that and it's not spin from the West.

Merger policy: as provided for in USAPA By-Laws seniority integration will occur by date-of-hire with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

Do you need more proof or am I just spinning the facts again?

Unbelievable.....

 

[ultrarunner]

Merger policy: as provided for in USAPA By-Laws seniority integration will occur by date-of-hire with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

What is really incredible in all this is that ANY east pilot thinks they would have had ANY 'un-merged' career expectation other than unemployment.

I'm serious.

 

[BeCareful!]

Correct. I'd been reading that USAir was "done" for at least 18 years or more. Must have been true. It was even said on the Internet!

 

[BeCareful!]

PR: that's quite different than "1500 out of 1750 AWA pilots below the most junior east pilot," which is what I was commenting on. So, yeah....you're just spinning away.

Ya know, if you'd just get a life all this wouldn't seem so serious

 

[JoeMerchant]

Can you feel the love.....

Just wait until we get AAA/UAL.....USAPA/ALPA.....We may crash the FI servor on that one....

Rez...you want some popcorn?

 

[Deadalus]

It's always fun watching guys like BeStupid! squirm.

 

[T-Bags]

Correct. I'd been reading that USAir was "done" for at least 18 years or more. Must have been true. It was even said on the Internet!

If you have been hearing how much U sucks for 18 years and didn't go get another job, then you DESERVE your p1sspoor seniority....

 

[4got2flare]

Did I miss something... Didn't USair and America west both agree to arbitration? If so does changing your union after a settlement change the outcome? Now what determines the senority list? The arbitration or do they start over again with west and east??? This could go on forever....

Happy landings...

 

[TWA Dude]

Did I miss something... Didn't USair and America west both agree to arbitration?

Yup. And nobody complained that the arbitrator was senile, incompetent, biased, or corrupt before he rendered his decision.

If so does changing your union after a settlement change the outcome?

No, all previous agreements are still in place. The AL-SAPA plan is to use their numerical advantage to re-negotiate everything with the complany to their advantage. Unethical and anti-union, to be sure, and on very shaky legal ground. They found a lawyer in need of business to tell them what they wanted to hear. Nobody else seems to think they can do it. We'll find out when their "professional" negotiator sits down with the company.

Now what determines the senority list?

Agreements between the union and the company. A seniority list can certainly be restructured. The issue at hand is whether a list can be restructured purely to the disadvantage of one distinct group. I'd say no.

The arbitration or do they start over again with west and east??? This could go on forever....

It won't go on forever -- one way or another...

 

[BeCareful!]

Yup. And nobody complained that the arbitrator was senile, incompetent, biased, or corrupt before he rendered his decision.

Well of course not. ALPA at least wanted to hear what the old man had to say

Reference to the Allegheny-Mohawk stuff (another thread, but whatever) we all know that DOH isn't stated, only that Mohawk pilots got DOH even though they'd been shut down for six months. Talk about pre-merge expectations....wow.

Anyway, I found this other little piece of A/M that might provide some comfort (?). Who knows (?), I'm sure Doug and Tilton have talked about how to avoid paying out anything on this, but here's to hope that I'll get 60% furlough pay through the LPP for a year or more. Going to do some major riding!

The LPPs referred to in the amendment were established by the CAB in 1972. The CAB routinely imposed LPPs in the 1950s and 60s in airline mergers and, in its 1972 Allegheny-Mohawk decision, formalized a standard set of LPPs granting specific forms of financial aid and other rights to employees affected by a CAB-approved merger. These provisions included:

• A "dismissal allowance" for employees who lost their job as a result of the merger, within three years from the effective date of the merger. This allowance was 60% of the employee's average monthly compensation for the prior twelve months in which the employee earned compensation before being deprived of employment as a result of the merger. The length of time the employee received this allowance varied based on the employee's length of service, with a maximum of five years for employees who had been employed for fifteen years or longer.

 

[imacdog]

Hey BeCareful,

Considering the actions of the US east pilot group to hurt their fellow pilots, when you get furloughed who do you think will hire you?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Don't worry,Be Careful will be able to flow back through to his old "off the street" Captain job at PSA and piss off a whole new generation of RJ F/O's trying to get their careers off the ground.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well of course not. ALPA at least wanted to hear what the old man had to say

Reference to the Allegheny-Mohawk stuff (another thread, but whatever) we all know that DOH isn't stated, only that Mohawk pilots got DOH even though they'd been shut down for six months. Talk about pre-merge expectations....wow.

Anyway, I found this other little piece of A/M that might provide some comfort (?). Who knows (?), I'm sure Doug and Tilton have talked about how to avoid paying out anything on this, but here's to hope that I'll get 60% furlough pay through the LPP for a year or more. Going to do some major riding!

The LPPs referred to in the amendment were established by the CAB in 1972. The CAB routinely imposed LPPs in the 1950s and 60s in airline mergers and, in its 1972 Allegheny-Mohawk decision, formalized a standard set of LPPs granting specific forms of financial aid and other rights to employees affected by a CAB-approved merger. These provisions included:​

• A "dismissal allowance" for employees who lost their job as a result of the merger, within three years from the effective date of the merger. This allowance was 60% of the employee's average monthly compensation for the prior twelve months in which the employee earned compensation before being deprived of employment as a result of the merger. The length of time the employee received this allowance varied based on the employee's length of service, with a maximum of five years for employees who had been employed for fifteen years or longer.

The only sedctions of Allegheny- Mohawk that applies in the recently enacted legislation is section 3 and 13. Idon't believe what you posted is either one. You guys really ought to think about doing some research before making yourself look like fools.(But then again it is damn entertaining to watch. ) Your group's apathy and ignorance in industry events and the world around you, is what led to USAPA's success in getting installed as the collective bargaining agent. It will also lead to its eventual failure.


PHXFLYR

 

[Prog 2/2]

Anyway, I found this other little piece of A/M that might provide some comfort (?). Who knows (?), I'm sure Doug and Tilton have talked about how to avoid paying out anything on this, but here's to hope that I'll get 60% furlough pay through the LPP for a year or more. Going to do some major riding!

The LPPs referred to in the amendment were established by the CAB in 1972. The CAB routinely imposed LPPs in the 1950s and 60s in airline mergers and, in its 1972 Allegheny-Mohawk decision, formalized a standard set of LPPs granting specific forms of financial aid and other rights to employees affected by a CAB-approved merger. These provisions included:​

• A "dismissal allowance" for employees who lost their job as a result of the merger, within three years from the effective date of the merger. This allowance was 60% of the employee's average monthly compensation for the prior twelve months in which the employee earned compensation before being deprived of employment as a result of the merger. The length of time the employee received this allowance varied based on the employee's length of service, with a maximum of five years for employees who had been employed for fifteen years or longer.

I'm sure, since this is is a "CAB-approved" merger, that they'll get that money right out to you in the event of a furlough.

Is ignorance a prerequisite for following USAPA?

Or is it just that being in that group leads to stupidity?

 

[johnnyb]

So, I know AWA AAA was a disaster. The only other merger with ALPA merger policy was Polar and Atlas.
How did that work out using ALPA merger policy? Did it work out in the end?

Marty

The Atlas/Polar merger continues to be just as big a disaster as the AWA/US Airways (and soon Delta/ NWA) nightmare.

Or, were you asking about the SLI specifically?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Merger Policy is a tool. Some groups know how to use it, and some don't.

4,000 years ago, Egyptians built enormous pyramids with simple tools. Those pyramids are still standing...testament to their effective use of tools.

The guy who owns the farm next to our's lost an arm in a tool.

 

[regionaltard]

Merger Policy is a tool. Some groups know how to use it, and some don't.

4,000 years ago, Egyptians built enormous pyramids with simple tools. Those pyramids are still standing...testament to their effective use of tools.

The guy who owns the farm next to our's lost an arm in a tool.

Maybe the East folks just forgot to file their Merger Policy revisions. BTW, didn't the Scientologist's build the pyramids?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Merger Policy is a tool. Some groups know how to use it, and some don't.

4,000 years ago, Egyptians built enormous pyramids with simple tools. Those pyramids are still standing...testament to their effective use of tools.

The guy who owns the farm next to our's lost an arm in a tool.

...and tools can be used as weapons....