Southwest is buying somebody...or something

[GuppyWN]

PCL. Refresh my memory on why you hate WN so badly?

Gup

 

[400ADude]

I'm firmly convinced that we'll get completely raped if SWA comes after us. The further they stay away, the better. I'd actually prefer AMR over SWA.

You don't need to worry about us. Rape is what your management team does to you guys. I'd worry about your stock price and your companies ability to withstand 115 dollar oil for the next year and a half??

BTW, Hawaii flying is not that profitable.

PS: I think you guys are a good fit with AMR.

 

[Dan Roman]

Flying a 737 to Hawaii is NOT lucrative by any means. I saw it once but forget the actual numbers, but the seat mile costs are a lot higher than a 767's (a lot of fixed costs spread out over 100 pax compared to 250). Alaska's ANC to Hawaii service IS very lucrative though (last I heard it was $1000 bucks RT). The rest of their service may be good for frequent flyers and their marketing, but they don't make money with it.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL. Refresh my memory on why you hate WN so badly?

Gup

I don't "hate" WN, it's just not a place I've ever wanted to work, and I don't think we'd do well in an acquisition situation.

 

[shagadelic]

So, let me get this straight, PCl. You are a copilot on a 717. You could get stapled to the very bottom of our list, and within a year be making more than you make now. Within 5 years, making more than most Captains at Airtran as an FO. Earning a 7.3 percent 401k match with profit sharing running 5 to 10 percent a year, at a company that has not lost money for the year in 30 years and has 3 billion dollars in cash in the bank with the strongest balance sheet in the passenger carrying industry. And that's what happens to you if you are stapled at the VERY bottom.

You're right, what a screw job.

BTW, the feeling is mutual. We don't want a bunch of pilots who didn't want to be here in the first place. I am very happy Gary Kelly has backed off his merger talk.

 

[GuppyWN]

Well I hope you're right! LOL Just kidding.... Sorta.

But I have a feeling you'd get a more fair shake at WN than your ofher two choices.

Bottom line. The only thing worse than merging with anyone is chapter 7.

Gup

 

[Quimby]

I'm firmly convinced that we'll get completely raped if SWA comes after us. The further they stay away, the better. I'd actually prefer AMR over SWA.

be careful what ya wish for...

 

[Lear70]

be careful what ya wish for...

No sh*t...

I'm going to smack you silly, boy... talking about merging with AMR...

You need a reasonable suspicion drug test.



Seriously, I'd love SWA pay, but you guys work too dang hard. I'm all about doing 3 legs, going to the hotel for 16-18 hours in a nice place, having a nice dinner, getting up and working out, having a nice breakfast, then go do 3 legs again, for about 4 days, then go home for 4 or 5. 18 days off a month crediting 80 hours. Don't see many lines like that when my SWA buddy is showing me the pairings.

 

[PCL_128]

Seriously, I'd love SWA pay, but you guys work too dang hard. I'm all about doing 3 legs, going to the hotel for 16-18 hours in a nice place, having a nice dinner, getting up and working out, having a nice breakfast, then go do 3 legs again, for about 4 days, then go home for 4 or 5. 18 days off a month crediting 80 hours. Don't see many lines like that when my SWA buddy is showing me the pairings.

Exactly! It's not always about the money, guys. I simply don't want to work that hard. I have a very leisurely schedule now, even as a somewhat junior copilot. I have no desire to lose that just for some more money. QOL and easy work are far more important to me.

 

[Quimby]

flying 4-5 legs a day isn't working hard.........digging ditches or being a roofer in PHX in July is working hard.

I know there's plenty of AT trips that fly 4-5 legs/day.....just as much as there's SWA trips flying 6/day or 2 legs a day.

 

[PCL_128]

flying 4-5 legs a day isn't working hard

Compared to my current schedule, not only is it hard, it's damned near torture.

I know there's plenty of AT trips that fly 4-5 legs/day.....just as much as there's SWA trips flying 6/day or 2 legs a day.

Not really. There is a tiny portion of the trips that will have one 5-leg day during a trip, but most trips max out at 4 legs a day, with it being pretty easy to avoid trips with more than 3 legs a day. As for six legs a day, I've never seen such a thing here. That's frickin' RJ flying. Are you guys actually flying 6 legs in a day?

 

[waveflyer]

yeah- guys who hate southwest boggle me... Seriously- do you really think everyone there is so happy b/c theyre all delusional?
have you seen the average schedule- their so efficient it's ridiculous... i'd rather work hard and rest in the hotel and at home. If you're going to make me come into work- let me work. Let me make us both money.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

My next trip has 3 legs on day 1....2 legs on day 2...and 3 legs on day 3....

Not hard work at all

 

[PCL_128]

have you seen the average schedule- their so efficient it's ridiculous... i'd rather work hard and rest in the hotel and at home. If you're going to make me come into work- let me work. Let me make us both money.

Not everyone agrees. I prefer a nice relaxed schedule with 1-3 legs a day and 40+ minute turns with long layovers. That is, if I'm even doing regular trips. I prefer stand-up lines, and SWA doesn't even do those. Not "efficient" enough for them.

 

[waveflyer]

hmmm- i don't really care to change your mind on that. That's just preference- there are so many things that WN does to keep fatigue down while keeping productivity high- that i really like it. Keeping the sleep schedule consistent is one. To me- every hour i'm on the ground- is an hour i'm not getting paid for, but required to be there- I don't see the argument for wanting that. But that's just me.
But what glares out to me- and reading what you tend to write- The thing i don't like about the union mentality is when words like "efficient" become bad words instead of integral to the economy.

 

[PCL_128]

is when words like "efficient" become bad words instead of integral to the economy.

There's nothing really wrong with efficiency.....to a point. But when it comes to 20 minute turns and 6 legs a day, efficiency is reaching the breaking point.

 

[slaquer5]

There's nothing really wrong with efficiency.....to a point. But when it comes to 20 minute turns and 6 legs a day, efficiency is reaching the breaking point.

PCL I have to ask, Why do you hate SWA so much. Every post you slam SWA. Hate is an evel thing, you need help.

 

[Lear70]

Actually, PCL is one of the nicest, funniest, laid back people I know.

He happens, however, to feel very passionately about a few things, and tends to defend them with vigor.

I don't see "hate" so much as I see disinterest in certain aspects of SWA flying, and that doesn't come across well on a message board (he doesn't say "you guys suck, you're all frakking crazy to fly that stuff, you need a lobotomy" or anything goofy like that, he just comes across a little snotty with the way that he writes, even though that's not how he sounds in person.

One of those internet things I guess. One of the nicest guys in the world, even though we have agreed to disagree about certain things like ALPA and other issues.

Personally, 6 legs a day with 20 minute turns is past my "happy" point as well, even though I understand what you're trying to do with "efficiency" and getting more time at home.

By definition, you'd end up with 11 hour duty days, 8 hours of flying, and 13 hours in the hotel just to keep it inside FAR limits, and I'd come home beat up and needing a day to recuperate if I did more than 2 days of that.

Some people work differently than others under that heavy of a schedule, and I prefer working somewhere where it's not the norm.

Southwest is a fine airline with fine (mostly) men and women who work there. Wish you all the best, just hope there's not more ATA-type adventures in your future with anyone... including airTran. Sounds like you guys wish the same.

:beer:

 

[rudder]

If SWA is in a buying mood, it will not be airTran. Best bet - Alaska.

 

[Lowrider717]

I'm all about doing 3 legs, going to the hotel for 16-18 hours in a nice place, having a nice dinner, getting up and working out, having a nice breakfast, ...

Gee, what overnites do you bid, cause with my third RON in SWF on this 4 day, I'm looking for a change in venue. Gotta run, my waffle's done.

 

[flyingitalian]

There's nothing really wrong with efficiency.....to a point. But when it comes to 20 minute turns and 6 legs a day, efficiency is reaching the breaking point.

Yea that is a really nice easy day, beats 15 min turn and 8 leg days.

Look ive done both type days and i can tell you i would rather have a 6 leg day with no a/c changes and 20 min turns than a 4 leg day with 2 hour plus turns.

Our scheduling and pairing efficiency are a real thing of beauty. Its one of the best schedules anywhere, with am pm consistency and efficient flying. Work and than go home.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Who cares what type of flying people like!

 

[vixin]

No sh*t...

I'm going to smack you silly, boy... talking about merging with AMR...

You need a reasonable suspicion drug test.



Seriously, I'd love SWA pay, but you guys work too dang hard. I'm all about doing 3 legs, going to the hotel for 16-18 hours in a nice place, having a nice dinner, getting up and working out, having a nice breakfast, then go do 3 legs again, for about 4 days, then go home for 4 or 5. 18 days off a month crediting 80 hours. Don't see many lines like that when my SWA buddy is showing me the pairings.

That sounds like my schedule. Except I usually only get 17 days off a month. Oh well I guess I will take it, to be an FO and making AT CA pay. I rarely fly over three legs. When I do I make sure they are West cost days. Makes it easy when you are flying in sunshine all day. There are guys here that love the 5/6 leg days and will grab those trips. Go figure different strokes for different folks. Besides you two are starting to sound like GL. Quick someone mention PFT...oh I just did.

 

[StopNTSing]

PCL I have to ask, Why do you hate SWA so much. Every post you slam SWA. Hate is an evel thing, you need help.

Give it up, guys. I already tried this same question with PCL on another thread. He lets his principles and his ignorance of SWA trump the facts. Kinda sad, really. But then, how can you reason with someone who actually likes doing stand-ups? I suppose red-eyes probably come in a close second on his dream schedule. :nuts: Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[Quimby]

Not everyone agrees. I prefer a nice relaxed schedule with 1-3 legs a day and 40+ minute turns with long layovers. That is, if I'm even doing regular trips. I prefer stand-up lines, and SWA doesn't even do those. Not "efficient" enough for them.

so you get 16-18 hrs of rest in a nice hotel on the stand ups you prefer?

 

[Aubie]

I'm just curious - if SWA is so bad why does someone have to use inaccurate data to prove that point? Shouldn't the truth work? I haven't had a line with a 20-min turn scheduled inI don't know how long, I had maybe one 6-leg day all of last year, and I have overnighted in LBB once. Ever.

Yeah it sucks here. Stay away.

 

[Quimby]

Compared to my current schedule, not only is it hard, it's damned near torture.



Not really. There is a tiny portion of the trips that will have one 5-leg day during a trip, but most trips max out at 4 legs a day, with it being pretty easy to avoid trips with more than 3 legs a day. As for six legs a day, I've never seen such a thing here. That's frickin' RJ flying. Are you guys actually flying 6 legs in a day?

torture? No wonder the general public thinks we're overpaid & underworked. Are you sure you even like flying? Or are you already burned out after 5000 hrs?

Maybe you could run your version of torture by John McCain. He might think otherwise.

 

[Lear70]

Gee, what overnites do you bid, cause with my third RON in SWF on this 4 day, I'm looking for a change in venue. Gotta run, my waffle's done.

I used to bid SWF all the time.

The old hotel (Country Inn) had that really cool biker bar across the street with the best seafood really cheap. $15 bucks got you a HUGE sampler platter of cod, crab cakes, and lobster balls, plus tall pitchers of beer for $7.

My kind of layover.

Then we moved out by the mall. Still a nice place. Have no idea where the overnight is now. It's probably in some trailer park under renovation from 0400-2000 daily and we'll get kicked out once the renovation is done.

That's one thing about SWA I like. They let the pilots pick decent hotels, negotiate great discounts for food and beverage, and no bed bug bites, spider bites, toxic mold, or parking lot murders like AAI's hotels. (no, I'm not exaggerating).

Besides you two are starting to sound like GL. Quick someone mention PFT...oh I just did.

Oh, and don't forget LBB... LOL

oh wait, Aubie beat me to it. (disclaimer, I've never even been there, don't understand what's so bad about it).

 

[Rtrell]

Lobster's have ball's? I finally learn something useful on here.

 

[TXDanno]

flying 4-5 legs a day isn't working hard.........digging ditches or being a roofer in PHX in July is working hard...

WORD!

Folks need to maintain some perspective.

I dug ditches for $6/hr in 1984, waiting for Uncle Sugar to call. Some of that was hard work.

Flying three to four days of 24-26 hour duty days, that can be hard. Throw in an attack warning while on the ground, that's not fun.

Haven't done it, but I bet days on end of 7-8 hours of CAP with a few refuels, with a nice tight rocket seat strapped on, that can be hard.

But roofing in PHX, that is hard work. Running through the desert in chem gear, lugging a machine gun, being shot at, that is hard work.

The rest of this, might be hard to justify it as hard work.