Southwest is buying somebody...or something

[Skyboy722]

Seriously, I'd love SWA pay, but you guys work too dang hard. I'm all about doing 3 legs, going to the hotel for 16-18 hours in a nice place, having a nice dinner, getting up and working out, having a nice breakfast, then go do 3 legs again, for about 4 days, then go home for 4 or 5. 18 days off a month crediting 80 hours. Don't see many lines like that when my SWA buddy is showing me the pairings.

I don't get this. This month, I have 19 days off which pays 95. Not ONE 5-leg day. Shortest overnight is 14 hours. I'm not that senior. I would be a complete wuss to think this is hard. If you don't want to do six legs a day, you really don't have to. There really are not that many of them. It's even part of the bid sort program...

 

[Fubijaakr]

If SWA is in a buying mood, it will not be airTran. Best bet - Alaska.

I agree. The upside for LUV/AS: All 737s. ETOPS certificate. Hawaii flying established. Superior West Coast presence. Mature transcon markets. Lucrative state of Alaska flying.

The minuses for LUV/AAI: 717s. No ETOPS. No Hawaii. No Alaska.

Between the two carriers, I think the LUV/AS deal makes more sense.

 

[funnyman12]

I think a LUV/AS would make more sense, but now (if approved) the largest airline in the world's hub is ATL. I believe that makes AAI very tasty right now. Im a bit nervous. Im not the smartest man but If I wanted to compete directly with the new DAL I would want a large presence in ATL.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL I have to ask, Why do you hate SWA so much. Every post you slam SWA. Hate is an evel thing, you need help.

Honestly, why do you guys keep saying "hate?" I don't hate SWA! In fact, there are aspects of SWA that I've praised in the past, especially their internal labor relations and incredible fuel hedging department. But that doesn't mean that I want to work there! That doesn't mean that I "hate" your airline, merely that it's not my cup of tea. Why do so many SWA pilots take that as a personal affront? If someone tells me that they don't want to work at AirTran because they want to be able to fly widebodies someday, or because they don't like flying domestic, then I don't take that as a personal attack, it's just that the airline I work for isn't for them. Not everybody will fit well at every airline. Different people have different priorities.

 

[PCL_128]

But then, how can you reason with someone who actually likes doing stand-ups?

Most of our stand-up lines are flown by pilots that only bid for stand-ups because they love them. Again, not everybody enjoys the same kind of flying. Maybe you like spending four days away from home at a time, but I prefer to be home every day of the week and only leave for 10-12 hours at a time.

I suppose red-eyes probably come in a close second on his dream schedule. :nuts: Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Actually, that's something I'm interested in about SWA. How do your red-eye lines work? Days off, number of legs, etc... The red-eye lines here at AirTran are all 737 flying, so I've never done them. Might be my kind of flying, but not really sure.

 

[PCL_128]

so you get 16-18 hrs of rest in a nice hotel on the stand ups you prefer?

No, I get to spend every day at home instead. But if I have to fly regular trips, I'd prefer an easy schedule instead of a ball-buster 6 leg day with 20 minute turns and a 12 hour overnight.

 

[climb2slow]

Actually, that's something I'm interested in about SWA. How do your red-eye lines work? Days off, number of legs, etc...

Last I remember, SWA didn't do redeyes. Lucky bastards! Seems they are all in bed or at the hotel bar by about 11pm in whatever city they sleep in! Sounds like good QOL to me!

 

[PCL_128]

No red-eyes? How do they keep aircraft utilization up? I could have sworn that SWA flew at least some red-eyes.

 

[slaquer5]

No red-eyes? How do they keep aircraft utilization up? I could have sworn that SWA flew at least some red-eyes.

None ,not even one. We never have . As far as utlization,I think you answered that question when you slam us on doing 20 min. turns.

 

[starchkr]

NO RED-EYES?!?!?!?!

Dam, your missing out on the easy commutes, the easy controllers and the great layovers!!! Well, at least here at F9 that's how they are, don't know how they would be there at SWA.

OK, back to topic...

 

[Thunderchief]

None ,not even one. We never have . As far as utlization,I think you answered that question when you slam us on doing 20 min. turns.

The 2 biggest reasons I hope SWA buys us is:

1. the 1,2,3 rule
2. the Billions SWA has in the bank (job security)

I could care less whether I'm doin standups, red eyes, brown eyes... whatever.

 

[PCL_128]

None ,not even one. We never have . As far as utlization,I think you answered that question when you slam us on doing 20 min. turns.

*sigh* You still insist on using the term "slam" when that's not what it is at all. In any case, that still leaves the airplanes sitting for an awful long time at night without being utilized. I'm surprised that SWA doesn't want those planes moving almost around the clock.

 

[MINIME]

Truth is, no pilot will have a say as to whom their airline will hitch up with if at all. The market and competitive needs will dictate that.

From a QOL and monetary stand point, any LCC or even some Legacies would be fools not to want to join with LUV. Again, this from a compensation point of view. Why not? If pilots keep their jobs and the implementation is rational, it's an instant win for the pilots. Who doesn't like more money or more days off while still being treated like a human? That's what the majority of us strive for! LUV can offer that immediately to most pax pilots.

It would take many years for any LCC to have the compensation that SWA offers. With the mergers, some Legacies might come close but I think they may still fall short. If SWA merges with someone it will be because they feel they need it. If they fill that gap, then every employee is better for it. As this will ensure that the company stays competitive for many years to come.

In the end, a seat is a seat, an airplane is an airplane, a hotel room is still a hotel room. The only different factor is what your W2 states at the end of the year and how many nights you got to spend in your own bed. I think it's safe to say that this is the meat of it all.

 

[StopNTSing]

*sigh* You still insist on using the term "slam" when that's not what it is at all. In any case, that still leaves the airplanes sitting for an awful long time at night without being utilized. I'm surprised that SWA doesn't want those planes moving almost around the clock.

*sigh* Enough others have already made the point that we !!surprise!! don't do red-eyes, so I won't belabor the point. Probably has as much to do with our point-to-point ops (ie, no need to get all the birds back to an east-coast hub for the morning departure bank) as anything else. Oh, and don't worry about the A/C utilization...it's among the highest in the industry already. Again, that point-to-point thing...when the aircraft aren't stuck at a large hub for an hour or more several times a day, as opposed to SWA's typical 25-30 min turns (the 20 min turn is just about gone, BTW) the utilization goes way up.

But the larger point PCL, and I don't mean to pick on you alone as it applies to many here on FI who choose to wallow in the dated cliches about what SWA is like, is that you continue to show that you know little of what you speak vis-a-vis this airline. This place is not for everyone. Those with a strong case of SJS should definitely stay away! But if narrow-body, domestic ops is your cup of tea, I honestly don't know who else can possibly touch this place in terms of compensation, schedule quality and flexibility, and work environment. I really don't. This is not chest-thumping, it's as unbiased an observation as I can make. If somebody has a better domestic gig, I'd love to hear about it (and I'd REALLY love for our negotiating committee to also hear about it).

So when I (and some of my SWA brethren here on FI) read your repeated statements about how you'd sooner go to UAL than endure a SWA merger, or hope that AA merges with you before SWA. We are left thinking to ourselves "What is this guy's major malfunction? Why would AirTran to SWA be the end of his world? What is he not getting about this place? The half-dozen ex-Tranny dudes I've flown with this year all think they died and went to heaven!" ...and so we reply accordingly. Look, if you are happy where you're at, God bless you. I just think you lose some credibility and sound really uninformed when you make the kind of statements you have about a SWA-AirTran merger...not that it will ever happen anyway!

 

[airlinepilot]

PCL 128 You have no idea how we operate...that is clear from your posts.s. Our reserves get 15 days off a month. I jumpseat you you guys from CLT TO BWI and back. From what I hear your lineholders don't get that much time off. Additionally, we only have about 8% of our lines as reserve. Talk about quality of life. What percent of the lines at Air Tran are reserve? Last month had 19 days off and this month it's 18. And, BTW the longest day is 4 legs with most days flying 3 legs.