NWA MEC Opposes Merger

[Lear70]

Ya'll had a chance, and rolled the dice. Now, within 2 years I bet (no furlough clause), the DC9s will go away, and hopefully you will sign on the dotted line for your fat raise. Then we'll get the next 20 777s that will head towards Asia, and you guys will join me for some BARBEQUE at a local NASCAR event. Hey, I'll buy the third round of pitchers! Jeff Gordon ROCKS!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow... the General is being WAY too nice.

I guess Ho Box Chick was right when she said it was popcorn night, I was thinking we'd go straight to the Jack and watch who got thrown in to the first ring with MEC DEATHMATCH!

JUST llll BRING llll IT !!!!!!!

 

[Poahi]

Now, within 2 years I bet

I bet both the lists and the operations won't be integrated two years from now.

 

[Yoloed]

xxxxx

 

[JOPILOT]

I bet both the lists and the operations won't be integrated two years from now.

At least someone will be making 17% more out of this bad idea of a career. The DAL MEC preserved at least some part of what was offered in the first negotiations...and all we have fellas is a start towards a joint contract in short order if the NWA MEC wants to play ball, if not then this thing will suck for two or more years and the NWA side of the house will be played down and that will not be pretty.

The NWA MEC's letter seems to stink of nothing to lose,at my seniority at either company I feel more confident with a chunk $, a raise, no furlough long enough to get my sh!t in order, and a much stronger airline with a great network. Even if there is a furlough, with the increase in air travel in the coming years, aircraft orders and retiring 787 captains, we will be back at work in short order.

 

[General Lee]

I bet both the lists and the operations won't be integrated two years from now.

That's the point. Why is the No furlough clause only good for 2 years? Makes you wonder? Pressure anyone?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Poahi]

That's the point. Why is the No furlough clause only good for 2 years? Makes you wonder? Pressure anyone?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Sure. It's a chess game, the results of which were mapped out last week and one of the four players wasn't invited to the party.

 

[General Lee]

Sure. It's a chess game, the results of which were mapped out last week and one of the four players wasn't invited to the party.

Oh come on now, they were invited initially. They didn't want to play fair, and thought their old chess pieces could blend in with our new ones. You see, we did have a lot of senior guys retire for their pensions, but at the same time we lost a bunch of airplanes.(MD11s, 767-200s, 737-200/300s) It came to a draw. Now NWA is about to lose a bunch of planes, but they want some of our guys to take the hit. They also kept their pensions and lost their work rules, but now would regain those work rules, while we can't get our full pensions back. Can you see the inequity yet? There has to be flexibility.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CFI2766]

Pop some popcorn and grab a drink, folks. This is going to get good!

Is it okay if the regional kiddies watch? It's not gonna get 'R' rated for language and immaturity, is it?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I work for Delta you jackass. You don't think this is going to screw up everything when the in-fighting starts. As bad as it is, if both sides don't come to an accord we will play in the hands of our mgmt.

Infighting? How about you, debate you?

It was not a stupid senario until you got a hold of it....

I was at in IP meeting yesterday and I was told DALPA has walked away..period. NWA request to have the top 400-500 spots and staple 2000-3000 DAL guys on the bottom is outrageous and the NWA ALPA will not negotiate from this .

Put it this way...most if not all DAL guys think that our union went way too soft in what they proposed for a senority list intergration (relative position). This might be part of the reason DAL is trying to recall its

... DAL has three times the widebodies as NWA (counting 757s). Relative postion integration will put that same eight year FO on his ass in the right seat of a DC-9 or a freaking RJ when the 9s are parked. In my book that just sucks.

Who gives a rats ass how many isles are in the back of the thing...

DAL gets to vote...so says our MEC. Then again, they might be full of sh1t and break yet another promise. Any one heard about furlough protection being eliminated? IF our MEC gave that up they can have my pin when they pull it out of their ass!

Appropriate day...April 15th - On that day I will be screwed by not only the IRS but the schmucks I work for as well. I feel like a porn star taking it in both ends...

To be honest...I am more affraid of my MEC selling me out than our managment. In my opinion the DALPA has screwed us by putting our opening offer on the table and having the closed door sesions with our mgmt. Now if this is not a scary statement, I don't know what is.

My only point was, if the DAL MEC is forced, against it's will, into battle - then it will fight for you. Everyone prefers a peaceful alternative and we hope the NWA MEC sits down and considers this matter rationally after the emotional reaction we have seen in public wears down.

Your heart's in the right place....

 

[JohnDoe]

That's the point. Why is the No furlough clause only good for 2 years? Makes you wonder? Pressure anyone?

Bye Bye--General Lee

That no furlough clause won't be worth the paper it is written on.

Are you forgetting what happened after 9-11? Both Delta and Northwest had no furlough clauses and both furloughed a combined +/- 2200 pilots.

Saint Anderson has been lying since he came to Delta. He said from the beginning he wasn't brought on board to facilitate a merger with NW. Hmmm, what just happened?

This merger isn't going to make oil any cheaper or fix the underlying poor (and getting worse) economy.

 

[Cessna340]

Is it okay if the regional kiddies watch? It's not gonna get 'R' rated for language and immaturity, is it?

No, now go to your room and take a time out.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

This is looking to stink about as bad and long as NWA/Republic back in '86....

 

[CALDC9]

I work for Delta you jackass. You don't think this is going to screw up everything when the in-fighting starts. As bad as it is, if both sides don't come to an accord we will play in the hands of our mgmt. Read the playbook from USAir...you don't think our "leaders" are expecting this letter from the NWA MEC? Come on, they are five steps ahead on this one.Remember...'this Sh!t is chess, not checkers.'

For any of the un-informed viewers;

This is all MIKE CAMPELL, he is 10 steps ahead of the pilots. I have experienced him up close. He is
the greatest threat airline pilots face in this country.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Huh? Line pilot, LCA, IP, Management?

 

[~~~^~~~]

This is the Press Release I'm waiting for

TO: All Northwest Pilots
FROM: Dave Stevens
DATE: April 15, 2008


In the wake of the Delta-Northwest merger announcement yesterday, and our subsequent declaration of war I am writing to update the Northwest pilots.

Basically, we want a “Do Over.” …….

Boyd expects an agreement between the pilots to be reached. ... hope he is correct.

 

[Lear70]

Pop some popcorn and grab a drink, folks. This is going to get good!

Is it okay if the regional kiddies watch? It's not gonna get 'R' rated for language and immaturity, is it?

COCK PIT chick is an RJ driver, so yeah, I'm guessing it's "regional kiddies-approved". LOL

Never read her signature line until last night... Funny how girls say they don't want to be stared at, then they take pictures of themselves in plunging kneckline outfits while they say it. With how conflicted women are wired, it's amazing they can function at all.

p.s. Box, I'm just giving you a hard time. :beer:

Incidentally, if this thing gets as drawn out as UAir / AWA and is just as ugly, it won't be fun to watch for very long. Those threads are DOZENS of pages long, they're boring as hell, as all the arguments have been out there for some time and it's just individual guys bashing each other with no end in sight.

Hope the Northwest guys will come to the table with an open mind, bearing the East/West fight in mind when they make decisions.

I agree, however, that 2 years no-furlough isn't a very long no-furlough clause at all. Again, chess, not checkers, think about 5-7+ years down the road...

 

[Poahi]

Oh come on now, they were invited initially. They didn't want to play fair, ...

Well, here's my question: What did management tell the DAL MEC that gave them the confidence to roll in favor of arbitration? Anyone else curious about this meeting?

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

This is going to get nasty. DALALPA is trying to throw us under the bus, So much for unity. I understand most dont have any say in this on the DAL side but your MEC should not have gone to mgmt on their own to undercut NWA pilots. They should have pressed on with NWA ALPA working on a joint contact, SLI, etc.

I sincerely hope this gets resolved because i would hate to see bitterness between the groups for years.

I agree but what it seems that the NWA folks are forgetting is that currently we at DAL make around 20-25% more than you to fly similar sized jets. Then with our 20% raise over 4 years, that puts your raises at 45%. You are forgetting that you are getting a 45% raise. Sure maybe some m ay be held back, but, also remember that career expectaions at NWA as a stand alone carrier will cause furloughs. You were supposed to park the DC-9s! These raises and jobs not being cut has to be included in the entire compensation/SLI issue

 

[XJohXJ]

Richard Anderson stated in the investor phone call that he was very very happy to be getting so many 100 seat (DC9) aircraft, and was looking forward to being able to use them on so many routes where they are the perfect size.

NWA was not going to park the DC9's until they cycled out. It looks like the "new" Delta, also, is NOT going to park the DC9's.

Of course, both airlines sound like they will be happy to REPLACE them (no net loss in fleet size), once the appropriate new 100 seat aircraft is found.

 

[Superpilot92]

Richard Anderson stated in the investor phone call that he was very very happy to be getting so many 100 seat (DC9) aircraft, and was looking forward to being able to use them on so many routes where they are the perfect size.

NWA was not going to park the DC9's until they cycled out. It looks like the "new" Delta, also, is NOT going to park the DC9's.

Of course, both airlines sound like they will be happy to REPLACE them (no net loss in fleet size), once the appropriate new 100 seat aircraft is found.

I agree and lets what i got out of it also. It appears there will be a big shuffle of aircraft and bases also.

 

[FDJ2]

Well, here's my question: What did management tell the DAL MEC that gave them the confidence to roll in favor of arbitration? Anyone else curious about this meeting?

DALPA still favors negotiations, not arbitration. A negotiated settlement is best for ALL involved.

It is an urban myth that DALPA was afraid of arbitration. It is also an urban myth that ALPA merger policy requires arbitration. Arbitration is only required when negotiations and mediation fail.

 

[FDJ2]

NWA was not going to park the DC9's until they cycled out. It looks like the "new" Delta, also, is NOT going to park the DC9's.

Not park all of them in the near term may have been the plan, but park a significant number of them was also part of the plan. With higher fuel prices, parking the DC-9s may be accelerated.

 

[DTW320]

I agree but what it seems that the NWA folks are forgetting is that currently we at DAL make around 20-25% more than you to fly similar sized jets. Then with our 20% raise over 4 years, that puts your raises at 45%. You are forgetting that you are getting a 45% raise. Sure maybe some m ay be held back, but, also remember that career expectaions at NWA as a stand alone carrier will cause furloughs. You were supposed to park the DC-9s! These raises and jobs not being cut has to be included in the entire compensation/SLI issue

I agree with some of your logic, but your facts are just wrong. You currently do not make anywhere near 20-25% more than us. Your 767 pays 11% more than our 757. Your MD88 pays 12% more than our DC9. Maybe you're including other benefits like DC plan, but remember we have many pilots getting a lot more than your DC % due to our targeting so I think that is a wash. I also disagree about the inevitability of NWA furloughs in a standalone plan. Our scope, unlike your scope, prevents NWA from parking all the DC9's and replacing the flying with RJ's. BTW, I agree with XJohXJ that RA's comments so far suggest a future for the DC9 in the new DAL.

Just trying to get this on an accurate footing. Having said that, I believe that we (NWAALPA) should get back to work on an SLI with you guys and get on down the road with this. I'll probably catch grief from fellow NWAers here, but after reading everything I can find on it I don't see the mother of all injustices to us that others apparently do. Are their differences and gripes about how things have been handled? Yes. I'll really catch flack for this, but it seems like we should at least try to take DALPA up on all the things they have stated since the merger announcement about working together as quickly as possible to reach a joint deal(we already had success at this) and, the biggy, a fair SLI. Then we will find out if you are really conniving,back-stabbing,throat slitting, ambushing weenie-heads. Again, we can argue about how all this should have been handled, but, IMO, the meat and potatoes of what has and hasn't happened so far don't seem to support the conclusion that you guys ARE all of those things. Maybe just some of them. Disclaimer: I reserve the right to apply any/all of the above derogatory slurs to individual DAL pilots at my sole discretion despite the fact that I do not believe they apply to said entire DAL pilot group as a whole.

OBE, Overcome By Events, applies to all of our collective prior arguments too. Let's GetRdone!

 

[Lear70]

Not park all of them in the near term may have been the plan, but park a significant number of them was also part of the plan. With higher fuel prices, parking the DC-9s may be accelerated.

Source?

Not just someone talking about what they "might" do, but a hard, definite retirement schedule with published implementation dates?

Don't think you'll find it. It's been rumored both ways by NWA execs back and forth for the last 2 years.

Bottom line: they're still out there flying, and will likely continue to fly since they're paid for until their frames come up for those heavy bulkhead checks.

Pay the extra fuel or pay double that extra fuel in the form of a new lease payment. Pick your poison.

 

[Lear70]

I agree with some of your logic, but your facts are just wrong. You currently do not make anywhere near 20-25% more than us. Your 767 pays 11% more than our 757. Your MD88 pays 12% more than our DC9. Maybe you're including other benefits like DC plan, but remember we have many pilots getting a lot more than your DC % due to our targeting so I think that is a wash. I also disagree about the inevitability of NWA furloughs in a standalone plan. Our scope, unlike your scope, prevents NWA from parking all the DC9's and replacing the flying with RJ's. BTW, I agree with XJohXJ that RA's comments so far suggest a future for the DC9 in the new DAL.

Just trying to get this on an accurate footing. Having said that, I believe that we (NWAALPA) should get back to work on an SLI with you guys and get on down the road with this. I'll probably catch grief from fellow NWAers here, but after reading everything I can find on it I don't see the mother of all injustices to us that others apparently do. Are their differences and gripes about how things have been handled? Yes. I'll really catch flack for this, but it seems like we should at least try to take DALPA up on all the things they have stated since the merger announcement about working together as quickly as possible to reach a joint deal(we already had success at this) and, the biggy, a fair SLI. Then we will find out if you are really conniving,back-stabbing,throat slitting, ambushing weenie-heads. Again, we can argue about how all this should have been handled, but, IMO, the meat and potatoes of what has and hasn't happened so far don't seem to support the conclusion that you guys ARE all of those things. Maybe just some of them. Disclaimer: I reserve the right to apply any/all of the above derogatory slurs to individual DAL pilots at my sole discretion despite the fact that I do not believe they apply to said entire DAL pilot group as a whole.

OBE, Overcome By Events, applies to all of our collective prior arguments too. Let's GetRdone!

Good post.

Hope cooler heads like yours prevail!

:beer:

 

[JoeMerchant]

It is an urban myth that DALPA was afraid of arbitration. It is also an urban myth that ALPA merger policy requires arbitration. Arbitration is only required when negotiations and mediation fail.

If anyone is familiar with "urban myths" it should be DALPA...They have started their fair share of them...:smash:

 

[KCPilot]

Good post.

Hope cooler heads like yours prevail!

Same here!

 

[737 Pylt]

If anyone is familiar with "urban myths" it should be DALPA...They have started their fair share of them...:smash:

Then there's always the rjdc ("baghdad bob's") version of their ever popular "industry update.":laugh:

737

 

[XJohXJ]

"Making a deal with one pilots group and not with another, that's innovative," said airline analyst Michael Boyd. "That's like bringing your ex-wife to your wedding. Smart."

 

[p3flteng]

So, most of us agree that we need to get back to the table, and the sooner the better.

My question is has anyone heard anything? Any MEC members absent on thier way to a meeting? Is there any dialog or any planned dialog soon?

We can't solve this without some meetings taking place.